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 Post subject: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:26 pm 
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It's common for non ABS Miata's to lock the front right brake first under aggressive straight line braking, and mine is no exception. Everything I have read attributes this to the Right Front being lighter than the Left Front due to driver position. Instead of driving my car while seated on the center console, I am thinking that I should be able to preload the front bar to transfer some of the weight on the Left Front to the Right Front to correct the problem. Generally preload is something to remove from the bar, but in this instance will it accomplish what I want or make the car unbalanced in other aspects?

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 Post subject: Re: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Jordan Normark wrote:
make the car unbalanced in other aspects?

this. your corner weight will be all screwy and it'll handle funny since the front sway will go from loaded (one direction) to neutral to loaded (opposite direction) as you turn.


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 Post subject: Re: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:58 pm 
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why not use ride height to adjust weight distribution?

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 Post subject: Re: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:05 pm 
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change the brake bias, it is sm legal. With wendys 03 Miata with sport brakes we had stock pads on front and hawks in the rear. With "FRANK" I was gonna get one of the adjustable brake bias set ups for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:25 pm 
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Jeremy Ellison wrote:
why not use ride height to adjust weight distribution?


When I had the car corner balanced that was done to get it as close as possible. I think preloading the sway bar to weight the right front will also increase weight on the left rear somewhat, but my thought was that the change might have more effect on the front left to right balance of the car?

1. Other thoughts include decreasing right front tire pressure for more grip.
2. Adding ballast to the right front :?

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 Post subject: Re: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:27 pm 
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jeremy gast wrote:
change the brake bias, it is sm legal. With wendys 03 Miata with sport brakes we had stock pads on front and hawks in the rear. With "FRANK" I was gonna get one of the adjustable brake bias set ups for it.


I have a bias valve and it is biased all the way to the rear. Will Wendy's car still lock up the RF wheel first with the Hawks on the rear?

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 Post subject: Re: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:40 pm 
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Jordan Normark wrote:
Jeremy Ellison wrote:
why not use ride height to adjust weight distribution?


When I had the car corner balanced that was done to get it as close as possible. I think preloading the sway bar to weight the right front will also increase weight on the left rear somewhat, but my thought was that the change might have more effect on the front left to right balance of the car?

1. Other thoughts include decreasing right front tire pressure for more grip.
2. Adding ballast to the right front :?


3. Less pad material on right front
4. Smaller diameter right front rotor.

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 Post subject: Re: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:49 pm 
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It would still lock up the fronts but only only when you did something super wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:57 pm 
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Jeremy Ellison wrote:
why not use ride height to adjust weight distribution?


you can only change weight distribution by moving weight around. all changing an individual corner's ride height (aka robbing peter to pay paul) can do is minimize the imbalance. unless the car's center of mass is in the middle lengthwise axis of the car (and with a single driver it rarely is) you'll never get both front and rear tire force equal at the same time no matter how hard you try.


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 Post subject: Re: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:23 pm 
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Thanks Jason. That all makes sense.

Jeremy, I am liking your idea #3. I have heard of people trimming the front pads to increase rear bias in stock or spec classes. I wonder how a smaller right front pad would feel under light to moderate braking?

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 Post subject: Re: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Jordan Normark wrote:
Thanks Jason. That all makes sense.

Jeremy, I am liking your idea #3. I have heard of people trimming the front pads to increase rear bias in stock or spec classes. I wonder how a smaller right front pad would feel under light to moderate braking?

i doubt that will work either. the caliper still squeezes the pad against the rotor with the same amount of force, it'll just be concentrated in a smaller area. go stand on a scale and note the reading. now lift one foot, does the reading change?


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 Post subject: Re: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:59 pm 
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circle trackers do it all the time, while the pressure remains the same the friction surface is decreased.Less friction surface = less friction. Another less labor intensive way is to put a more aggressive pad on the left front or a less aggressive pad on the right. Either way takes time and effort to get to the right balance.

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 Post subject: Re: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:14 pm 
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Bernie Baake wrote:
circle trackers do it all the time, while the pressure remains the same the friction surface is decreased.Less friction surface = less friction. Another less labor intensive way is to put a more aggressive pad on the left front or a less aggressive pad on the right. Either way takes time and effort to get to the right balance.

not to get all pedantic, but force remains the same, pressure (force divided by area) does not. and for a given force, less friction surface does not equal less friction. however, if the pad compound coefficient of friction decreases as the pad temp increases (like most street pads) then it may have the desired effect. but that's not true of all pads and with many compounds, particularly track pads, the coefficient of friction increases with temperature (to a point).

bernie's second suggestion is right on though. if you can't easliy change brake proportioning via mechanical or hydraulic means, use a higher/lower friction pad to help balance things out. but unless you stick to one compound per axle it'll still make the car squirrely under braking since not all tires are contributing equal braking force.


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 Post subject: Re: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Jason I'm not going to argue this with you. All I know is that is shaving brake pads is commonly done on circle track cars. Perhaps its done for another reason, I can't think of what but perhaps it's something else. At any rate I've done it on my miata and it appears to help, maybe it's just my imagination......But it made me feel better, and the car doesn't lock the right front as easily.

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 Post subject: Re: Preload sway bar to balance right and left front brakes?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:14 pm 
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Bernie, Did you shave the fronts equally on both right and left sides of the car or just the right front? Did you notice any negative results from it?

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