THSCC Forums

TR tests don't really say anything about hydroplaning resistance. This matters to me, considering I do a LOT of 80 mph commuting (Cary to Sanford). Thats where the Falken was awful, and where the Rival and ZII scare me. Wet stopping distance just comes down to compound more than tread design.

I'm not sure what Ryan's problem was with wear (maybe alignment?), I regularly got 16k miles and autocross duty out of Z1's on my mazda (4 sets worth). I flipped them once in their life due to my only ~1 degree negative camber in front, and toe was zero.

They were ok street tires, hydroplanning was only a worry for me near the end of their life (really when they were on the wear bars and I was telling myself "just make it through the next autocross!"). I worry that the lack of any circumferential grooves near the outside of the tire on the ZII will hurt their hydroplaning resistance a lot, but maybe I'm wrong.

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

I'm special My car really isn't any heavier than yours.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

I totally get that--which is why I have a hard time believing the TR data as well. I haven't found much info on "hydroplane resistance" in a tire comparison...But, I suspect that any tire is capable of hydroplaning in the right setting, so maybe don't do 80mph with standing water around, right?

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Steve Carter
1972 Datsun 240Z-- resto pics at http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd
2007 GPW Honda S2000-- STR 86

Interesting info here:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/tes ... sp?ttid=85

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/vid ... sp?ttid=85

There really are too many variables. One extreme performance tire's tread design MAY evacuate water better at 4/32's than another's does at 6/32. Or the one that starts with more tread depth may wear faster. Or you may be better at spotting (or remembering) the Heavy Rain "puddle" on northbound I540 near Lumley than many "normal" drivers do who then end up in the median . . . if they are lucky.

FYI I used to drive my Lotus Europa on minimal tread Hoosier Autocrossers in NC Thunderstorms. 1700 Lb car with wide tires and crappy visibility. Not fun.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

FYI

Picture of Hoosier Wet Tire tread pattern for lightweight cars like FF's. http://www.hoosiertire.com/racetires/i_pat_bg.jpg

I forget the tread depth.

My understanding is that these work at well over 100 mph on cars with no down force.

Funny thing is I've NEVER used my Hoosier Wet tires. The first set "aged out" after over 12 years and the second set is about one year old. It is currently with us in OH with the hope the tires are NOT needed for the Toledo Pro or the Wilmington Tour.

Dick

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

I found it interesting that tread patterns that "look like" they would be good for wet roads are in fact not necessarily "better" (i.e. the ones with the swept tread blocks/channels). You know, many years ago when the infamous Goodyear Gatorback came out (~1984) I think it was Car and Driver that tested them in a tire test rotating the normal way and then reversed (so that swept tread pattern was now backwards), and it made almost no difference in wet performance. The two tires that cleaned up in the wet by a pretty good margin in the recent Car and Driver/Tire Rack tire test from last year were the Pilot Super Sport and the Conti DW.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

As Chuck says tread patterns that "look right" don't seem to be the answer even though Hoosier happens to take that approach:

Look at these Pirelli Intermediate and Wet tread patterns (click on the I and the W in the panel on the right of the page). Keep in mind however that F1 has LOTS of downforce.

http://www.pirelli.com/tire/us/en/f1/tyre-range.html

Dick

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

For hydroplaning resistance, I don't think it is the shape or pattern of the tread grooves that matter nearly as much as the quantity. Water cannot be compressed, simple physics. Hydro-planning happens when in-compressible water cannot be evacuated effectively from underneath the tire contact patch. Tread groove shape or design probably play a minor roll in this, but what is most important is deep/frequent/numerous channels for which the water to escape. Any tire can hydroplane given enough water and enough speed, but the more larger, continuous blocks of tread, the less water can be evacuated. I don't think compound really even matters much. I'm no tire expert, but it seems simple physics to me.

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'07, '08, '11 Autocross VP
'06, '10 Mike Dishman Cup
'21 MX5, '13 Corvette GS, '92 Corvette 383 c.i. 413whp/390wtq, '03 Expedition

Chuck Norris can compress water........with his hands.

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2011/2012 Autox VP
2013/2014.5 President
2013 Top Gun

2015 Fit

22R-EC => 4G63 => D16Y7 + D16Y8 => EJ255 + K24Z2 => K20Z3 + K24Z2 => K24Z2 + M54 => L15B

My real question is how valid do you think Michelin's 30,000 mile treadwear warranty is on these things. I'll let you know

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

FWIW, I'm 3 autocrosses and about 5,000 miles into my PSSs and they still look solid. (and you all have seen (heard) how I drive at an autocross) I've been very happy with them thus far.

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Apparently, I'm the resident VW apologist.

Jesus Christmas, does tirerack really employ journalists who are uncapable of creating the simplest 2x3 table of results? That article made my head hurt to try to read it and discern any useful information.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I have the DW's on my Vette and they have pretty good resistance to hydroplaning.

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1990 Faded Reddish CSP Lite Miata
2002 Electron Blue Corvette Z06
2005 Mazda 6 Wagon
2003 Nissan Pathfinder DTV (Dog Transport Vehicle)

As another datapoint, I just drove through an epic downpour for thirty minutes tonight from Durham to Raleigh on the way back from ZMax. With only 200ft visibility I kept up with flow of traffic at 45mph through standing/draining water on I40, I540 and Rt 70 as well as surface streets. No hydroplaning with the Rivals. I wouldn't go 60 in that situation, but then again-- no one was driving that fast given how hard the rainfall was.

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Steve Carter
1972 Datsun 240Z-- resto pics at http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd
2007 GPW Honda S2000-- STR 86

Good feedback Steve and that's definitely helpful. Those are the situations that scare me the most with 'fun' summer tires- being in traffic with impatient highway drivers with little visibility.