Unable to rally: Tap extender or long handled tap needed

Michael Czeiszperger · **Joined:** Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:35 am **Posts:** 861

If I don't get the transmission subframe screwed back to the body I won't be able to race on Sunday :-(

One of the main large bolts that attaches the transmission to the body fell out at the last rally, presumably because there's no threads left to secure the bolt.

I purchased a tap and die set, but the hole is recessed and the tap won't reach. Logically, you'd think that the square end of the tap would just fit into a socket so it could be extended, but its no known english or metric size for any socket in a standard socket set.

It appears something like this would work, but I doubt I could get one delivered in time.

http://www.sears.com:80/shc/s/p_10153_1 ... sOrderConf

Any suggestions? Thanks!

George Bright · **Posted:** Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:05 am

If it is a big enough tap then you can use a 1/4 inch or 3/8 inch extention backwards. It won't hold it firmly but you might be able to make it work.

If you need a tighter grip get a cheap extention and drill and tap the hollow end for a set screw.

Michael Czeiszperger · **Joined:** Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:35 am **Posts:** 861

George Bright wrote:

If it is a big enough tap then you can use a 1/4 inch or 3/8 inch extention backwards. It won't hold it firmly but you might be able to make it work.

I have several 1/4 and 3/8 and 1/2 extenders. The problem is there's no way to make the tap fit into them even remotely.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:11 am

Mike,

I'm trying to figure out which bolt you are talking about. Under the tranny there are two transverse crossmembers: one in front is held on by large bolts (17 or 19mm heads.....M12x1.25 or M14x1.5 respectively). The one in the rear is held on by 2 14mm head bolts on each side (m10x1.25). Between these two is a longitudinal crossmember that is attached to each of the transverse crossmember with 14mm head bolts with rubber bushings between. Also the transmission mount attaches to this crossmember.

The end of taps is usually square so you can use a socket or extension backwards and use vicegrips to hold it.

Michael Czeiszperger · **Joined:** Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:35 am **Posts:** 861

JamesShort wrote:

Mike,

I'm trying to figure out which bolt you are talking about. Under the tranny there are two transverse crossmembers: one in front is held on by large bolts (17 or 19mm heads.....M12x1.25 or M14x1.5 respectively).

Its the m12x1.25.

Quote:

The end of taps is usually square so you can use a socket or extension backwards and use vicegrips to hold it.

The end of the tap is square, but it won't fit into any known socket size in the metric or english socket sets that I have. Its not even close. I don't see how vicegrips would work since its imperative that the tap be started at the right angle...

jeremy gast · **Posted:** Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:51 am

if you get a small enough 12 point socket it will hold the tap. I used to have a set when i worked at the machine shop but that was years ago.

Michael Czeiszperger wrote:

JamesShort wrote:

Mike,

I'm trying to figure out which bolt you are talking about. Under the tranny there are two transverse crossmembers: one in front is held on by large bolts (17 or 19mm heads.....M12x1.25 or M14x1.5 respectively).

Its the m12x1.25.

Quote:

The end of taps is usually square so you can use a socket or extension backwards and use vicegrips to hold it.

The end of the tap is square, but it won't fit into any known socket size in the metric or english socket sets that I have. Its not even close. I don't see how vicegrips would work since its imperative that the tap be started at the right angle...

JamesShort · **Posted:** Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:54 am

Michael Czeiszperger wrote:

JamesShort wrote:

Mike,

I'm trying to figure out which bolt you are talking about. Under the tranny there are two transverse crossmembers: one in front is held on by large bolts (17 or 19mm heads.....M12x1.25 or M14x1.5 respectively).

Its the m12x1.25.

Quote:

The end of taps is usually square so you can use a socket or extension backwards and use vicegrips to hold it.

The end of the tap is square, but it won't fit into any known socket size in the metric or english socket sets that I have. Its not even close. I don't see how vicegrips would work since its imperative that the tap be started at the right angle...

You have to use the back end of the extension/socket, ie the 1/4", 3/8", or 1/2" drive recessed square. I think the back of my m12x1.25 is 3/8". I had to do this on my friends Miata last week trying to clean up some m8 x1.25 sway bar nuts and my 1/4" drive 6" extension worked perfectly.

Also, I usually start the tap with my fingers before I attach anything (tap wrench or otherwise).

Do you think the threads in there are completely stripped out? Or just buggered up a bit? Because tapping with a m12x1.25 isn't really going to accomplish anything if there is no meat up there. You might want to drill it out to 13.x mm and get a m14x1.5 tap and use a 19mm (head) bolt. You can just find one from your subframe that is about as long as the bolt from your cross member and go to Subaru and get the 19mm version of it.

A 1/2" UNF tap might work too so long as you can find a high quality bolt of the proper length.

Michael Czeiszperger · **Joined:** Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:35 am **Posts:** 861

JamesShort wrote:

Do you think the threads in there are completely stripped out? Or just buggered up a bit? Because tapping with a m12x1.25 isn't really going to accomplish anything if there is no meat up there. You might want to drill it out to 13.x mm and get a m14x1.5 tap and use a 19mm (head) bolt. You can just find one from your subframe that is about as long as the bolt from your cross member and go to Subaru and get the 19mm version of it.

A 1/2" UNF tap might work too so long as you can find a high quality bolt of the proper length.

Yes, the plan calls to drill the hole and put in the next size bolt, the M14. I found that bolt from the local hardware store, and its hardened and in other respects the same as the M12 that came out, and so should work.

Quote:

You have to use the back end of the extension/socket, ie the 1/4", 3/8", or 1/2" drive recessed square. I think the back of my m12x1.25 is 3/8". I had to do this on my friends Miata last week trying to clean up some m8 x1.25 sway bar nuts and my 1/4" drive 6" extension worked perfectly.

I don't see how this would work with the taps I have since the end of the tap is either too large for the extension socket, or is way too small and so wouldn't generate enough leverage. The whole problem is the back of the tap does not fit any known metric or english size! Its a Harbor Freight tape and die set, so maybe I need to take it back and get something else?

JamesShort · **Posted:** Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:13 am

Michael Czeiszperger wrote:

I don't see how this would work with the taps I have since the end of the tap is either too large for the extension socket, or is way too small and so wouldn't generate enough leverage. The whole problem is the back of the tap does not fit any known metric or english size! Its a Harbor Freight tape and die set, so maybe I need to take it back and get something else?

I see, maybe the square end of taps are not standardized in size and that I've always just lucked out that the ends were either 1/4" or 3/8" squares

.

Michael Czeiszperger · **Joined:** Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:35 am **Posts:** 861

JamesShort wrote:

You might want to drill it out to 13.x mm and get a m14x1.5 tap and use a 19mm (head) bolt.

Does anyone have a 13mm drill bit? Does anyone? I've looked around and can't find any stores that carry drill bits in metric sizes.

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:11 pm

Michael Czeiszperger wrote:

Quote:

You have to use the back end of the extension/socket, ie the 1/4", 3/8", or 1/2" drive recessed square. I think the back of my m12x1.25 is 3/8". I had to do this on my friends Miata last week trying to clean up some m8 x1.25 sway bar nuts and my 1/4" drive 6" extension worked perfectly.

I don't see how this would work with the taps I have since the end of the tap is either too large for the extension socket, or is way too small and so wouldn't generate enough leverage. The whole problem is the back of the tap does not fit any known metric or english size!

Do any of those 8-point sockets fit? You know, the 3 or 4 that came with your socket set and you said, "what the hell are these things for" and put them in your junk drawer?

Quote:

Does anyone have a 13mm drill bit? Does anyone? I've looked around and can't find any stores that carry drill bits in metric sizes.

13MM ~= 1/2", FYI.

Charlie Guthrie · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:14 pm **Posts:** 832

I had a similar problem with a 12mm bolt on the SE-R. Impossible to find a Helicoil repair insert int 12mm, but entirely possible to find a 1/2-13 repair kit. The tap drill for the insert just cleans out the old 12 mm threads. Also, if it's critical for strength, one may use two inserts back-to-back.
The entire kit is about $40, but you are welcomed to borrow mine.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-1-2-in-20-UNF-thread-Fix-A-Thred-repair-kit-includes-3-pcs-insert-installer-tool-and-tap/_/N-26gb?counter=0&filterByKeyWord=thread+repair&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=466583_0_0_
Charlie G

Michael Czeiszperger · **Joined:** Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:35 am **Posts:** 861

Thanks, Charlie! I appreciate the offer to borrow this... it seems to be just what I need here.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:45 pm

Did the helicoil work out for you ok?

Michael Czeiszperger · **Joined:** Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:35 am **Posts:** 861

JamesShort wrote:

Did the helicoil work out for you ok?

Thanks for asking-- it worked out great so far! It didn't pull out during the rally at least. The whole process seemed safer than drilling out to the next largest M size and tapping.

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