Subaru ground strap ? or how I hate Subarus

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:20 pm

So, I have another issue with my Subaru. Seems that the alternator is fine, the battery is fine, and the starter is fine. But the stupid thing doesn't want to start without being hooked up with jumper cables.

So I'm thinking ground straps. They seem to be an issue with Subarus. It seems to be all the rage to change them on these silly little boxer engines.

Can anyone (Kevin?) tell me where I should be looking for the ground straps? Do I just need to clean the ends and bolts or am I going to have to replace the stupid things? Can anyone think of anything else I should look at?

Thanks in advance.

I knew I should have bought a Honda.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:31 pm

Driver side strut tower
Top of tranny, behind pitch stop
Frame rail on passenger side between the spark plug holes

Use a ohmeter and measure resistance between the black terminal on the battery and various points on the chassis and engine block/heads/IM.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:33 pm

Crank but not start versus no crank?

If no crank, have you tried jumpering between the "seems good" battery negative terminal and the starter housing directly? Does it crank/fire?

If crank, no fire then lots of places to look.

"Seems good" batteries have bit me a few times over the years.

Also with my 88 5.0 Mustang, "seems bad" battery problems too early in their life were solved with about a one eight ( 1/8 ) turn of an already tight battery ground lead connection to the block. Never even had to loosen or clean the connection. Go figure. (long electrical tech geek story on how I decided to try that :lol:

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Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:41 pm

Thanks James. That helps alot. I'm going to look at that tomorrow.

Dick, It will crank some times just fine. but then today, it wouldn't crank at all when my wife was trying to leave work. Hooked up the jumper cables between the van and the Subaru and it worked just fine. Got home (car ran for about 30 minutes or so) shut it off and nothing when I tried to restart.

I know, stupid, huh?

JamesShort · **Posted:** Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:43 pm

I was going to say crank position sensor too, but if it cranks sometimes but not others, then I don't think so.

Charlie Guthrie · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:14 pm **Posts:** 832

Just try jumping the negative battery terminal to the engine block to check whether the ground is OK.
From what you stated, however, this could be as simple as corroded battery connections. An easy test is to connect your volt meter between the battery post and the metal end of the cable and try to start the car. Anything more than 1/2 volt across the junction is not a good connection. When you jump start the car your jumper cables connect directly to the cable (or chassis) and bypass the battery/cable connection.
Charlie G

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:43 pm

Again, it is common in my experience for "seems good" batteries to be intermittent and a jump start solves the problem. If the battery is more than about 3- 5 years old and you don't find a visually obvious bad cable/connection so that you "know" the cable/connection is the culprit get a new battery.

After that, happy hunting.

The "geek" story with my 88 Mustang: That radio would lose its station presets and the time setting during starts with failing batteries . . . and, as it turned out, a bad ground connection at the block. Starter would "sometimes" be reluctant to turn over but always did. Replaced one or two batteries after checking the connections at the BATTERY but never at the block. Just didn't seem right since the batteries shouldn't have been bad yet. Hooked up an old cheap NEEDLE type voltmeter to the cigarette lighter to monitor the voltage during cranking. It dropped lower than when the voltage was monitored at the battery. This meant too much starting current (like more than none) was using a parallel path through the relatively small ground conductors to/from the instruments. (small wire, high current, equals lots of voltage drop). Took the hint that the main engine ground cable must have a problem somewhere so started with a quick 1/8 turn of the bolt. Problem GONE. Ground paths are weird (maybe even weirder than me :wink:

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MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Todd Breakey wrote:

So, I have another issue with my Subaru. Seems that the alternator is fine, the battery is fine, and the starter is fine.

Something doesn't add up here.

Based on what tests do you know the battery is fine?

Hey if Honda made a cheap AWD car with a symmetrical drivetrain I wouldn't own a Subaru either ... 1 Subaru, 1 BMW, 2 Chryslers, and 8 Hondas parked at my house at the moment!

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:49 am

MikeWhitney wrote:

Hey if Honda made a cheap AWD car with a symmetrical drivetrain I wouldn't own a Subaru either ... 1 Subaru, 1 BMW, 2 Chryslers, and 8 Hondas parked at my house at the moment!

I thought you lived in a nice neighborhood? :lol:

Dick (2 Ford Mustangs, 1 Coachmen (Dodge chassis/engine), 1 Datsun/Nissan, 1 Lotus (Ford based engine), 1 Van Diemen (Ford engine)

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:11 am

Todd if the car starts (cranks ) everytime you connect jumpers on it then your battery or the battery terminal connections are the problem.By connecting the jumpers your still using all the electrical circuitry in your car, except for the battery and the batt connectors. So you know the grounds are OK and the circuit to the starter motor is sound also. look at the batt connectors and the battery!!!!!

KouroshNeshat · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:03 am

if you still want to do your grounding kit:

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t118908 ... teups.html

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t36562- ... grade.html

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:21 am

A little more data to put into the mix.

When I went to check on the car yesterday, it acted like the battery was dead. No interior lights, no dash lights, nothing.

The battery was purchased 5/09 and when tested with both my multi meter and the tester at Advance, showed 12.9 volts. A little low, but understandable.

The Alternator might be the original, I can't find a build date on it. I tested it on the car and it showed good volts (I can't remember what it showed off the top of my head) but I took it to Advance also to put on their load bank. It tested well in the green. Again, I can't remember what it showed. I have all that written down.

Very minimal corrosion on the battery cable (pos side only) I cleaned it with a wire brush.

The only wild card is something that the previous owner installed. They put some kind of alarm on the vehicle that has a switch on the left kick plate. Every once in a while, if the stars align just right, the car thinks it's being stolen and you have to flip the switch up to start the car. Once started, flip back down and all is normal. 6 - 8 months later, it might do it again. I'm starting to think that *might* be the problem. But no amount of switch flipping solved our problem yesterday.

Help.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:50 am

Todd,

Assuming it isn't the alarm system not allowing power to the starter control circuits in the first place:

Have you tried connecting a voltmeter directly to the battery posts, not the connectors, when the battery acts dead? Then work your way out on the positive side. Assuming you've already cleaned/checked the connector to battery post connections then there is a good chance that the internal connections in the cables and/or the connections at the engine end are bad.

You might need to see if 12 volts is getting to the "solenoid" control terminals of the starter, not just the main feed. Or if the starter switch is on the negative side positive would always be there but the "ground" side would also be positive until ground is applied to that side by the switch. (I don't even know how Ford does it, certainly don't know how Subaru does theirs . . . :wink:

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DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:53 am

FYI there is a reasonable chance that the alarm system uses either a mechanical or a solid state relay. Certainly it has various crimp connectors. If the alarm needs a complete circuit to allow the car to start, this is a significant/likely source of your problem.

12.9 volts long after charging is not a problem on a 12v battery afaik.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:24 pm

Reading battery voltage with a volt meter means nothing unless the batt is totally dead. Under no load they will all read "good" voltage. Put the volt meter on the battery while your cranking the engine and see what the voltage falls to then do the same thing on the batt connectors and insure the voltage is the same as on the batt.
If the alarm circuit was causing this,It would do the same with jumpers connected everything points to the batt and or the connectors.
The circuitry in the car is stupid. It only knows if voltage is applied or not. So you've told us when jumpers are on it it starts and when the batt is on it alone it doesn't that means there isn't enough power to crank the starter on the batt alone. Which means the batt or the connection is bad.

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Subaru ground strap ? or how I hate Subarus

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