Watches... Functional or just jewelry for men?

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:06 am

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Comparing a Kia or a Hummer, which are not the top dog in any car category, to a Rolex isn't a good comparison. A Rolex is like the Ferrari or Lamborghini of watches.

I hate to be seen to just post anti-Rolex comments. I am not trying to convince anyone that their watch is anything less than what they think it is. If you are happy with your watch then that is great. I have some inexpensive watches that I love, but I also recognize that many others would not rate them very highly at all.

But I think the watch to car comparisons just really doesn't work as well as everyone would like. You can make an argument that something like a Ferrari is both the top of automotive design/performance and also a brand that is widely known within the general public (everyone knows who Ferrari is). I don't think this unique intersection on brand awareness within the general public and true performance exists in the watch world. This is because the watches that are the "Ferrari" of the watch world are brands that 99% of the buying public has never heard of.

This may ruffle feathers, but if I was to try the car/watch comparison, I would put a Rolex in maybe a Mercedes or BMW range. A quality product, no where near the best. Rolex has real quality going for it, but it's real value is the perception of the general public as to where the brand fits in a best to worst ranking.

In my opinion the closest comparison that I can come up with is audio speakers for a home audio system. There is a wide range of speakers available right up from no-name at discount stores up to brands you have never heard of. Ask a random person off the street to name the best speaker they can think of and they would probably mention "Bose". However, within the audiophile community Bose would be considered to be average at best in sound quality. I am sure the products are well made, but what Bose has going for them is a perception of excellence by the general public that is created by their marketing team.

To go back to VKs question about Rolex at Wal-Mart prices. It's obviously a scenario that will not happen because Rolex clearly understands that even if they could get the unit cost down enough it would ruin their reputation to link Rolex to an average Wal-Mart consumer. So the answer would be "no". The majority of people wouldn't want them. A number of people would see the inherent quality and would buy them regardless of whatever the public perception is.

The reason they are treated as heirlooms today (nothing wrong with that at all) and are passed down between generations is because of the quality (a real thing) and "top of the pyramid" exclusivity that is created and maintained by Rolex marketing.

The reason you don't hear about the watch brands that are above Rolex is because you are not their target audience. We have a handful of people on this forum who say they have Rolex watches. How many people here really have a Ferrari? How many have a Mercedes, BMW or Lexus?

I think this link really sums up my thoughts...

http://www.chronocentric.com/watches/brands.shtml

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:34 am

Richard Casto wrote:

To go back to VKs question about Rolex at Wal-Mart prices. It's obviously a scenario that will not happen because Rolex clearly understands that even if they could get the unit cost down enough it would ruin their reputation to link Rolex to an average Wal-Mart consumer. So the answer would be "no". The majority of people wouldn't want them.

That is my point exactly, just better stated by Richard than I.

clinehall · **Posted:** Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:34 am

Donnie Barnes wrote:

I'm like you guys on the "handing down" thing. One kid will get the Tag, one the Rolex. Dunno what I'll do with the Citizen.

--Donnie

At your funeral Instead of flowers, donations to your favorite charity and that gives you a raffle ticket for the watch, have to be present to win. Would make the funeral a lot more fun.

David Spratte · **Posted:** Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:13 pm

I've always worn a watch. Leaving without one seems weird. First Christmas after going to NCSU and taking SCUBA 1 my parents gave me a Citizen Aqualand. One of the first dive watches to have a little dive computer in it. An analog watch with an inset LCD that would record max. depth, time, and a couple of other details. I think I wore that watch just about every day for over 12 years before it took a pretty hard shot during a dive in Hawaii. I still have it and will likely get it fixed at some point.

Had some other watches, but nothing that ever seemed like a keeper until I got the automatic itch.

Started out with a Seiko automatic, an SKX-007 but I'm picky. So I started looking into ways to change it. Or for something else. These Seikos can be picked up for about $150 on eBay and other places. Some other models for even less so it's a nice option to see if living with an automatic is a good as the idea of living with an auto.

I wanted something understated. Nothing where the 'mark of the watchmaker was treated more importantly than the readability of the face. I guess since my first real watch was more of a tool than a piece of jewelry that's my mentality.

A Stowa Fleiger or Seatime were frontrunners for a while. Clean, simple design. You can even order the Flieger with a sterile face. But then I stumbled onto MK II: A small, essentially, one-man shop designing watches that are homages to historic military timepieces.

The fact that I could spec hands, dial and bezel insert to get the watch I wanted with a quality movement was pretty appealing. It's worked out well. With the watch regulated at build in six positions it's averaged less than +/- 2 seconds a day.

Ordered a leather, Bund-style band from a German company because it attaches with flat screws (they look like rivets) and a nylon NATO band for trips when I know there will be a bunch of swimming (like this last week in St. John) and I'm set.

The owner of MK II, interestingly enough, got his start by modifying those Seiko SKX watches. So I got parts for the Seiko and sent the whole thing off to IWW. Great shop, right here in the Triangle. They bead blasted the case and bracelet. Swapped dial, chapter ring, hands and bezel insert. I could have put a sapphire crystal on it, but since this watch was unlikely to get as much wrist time as the MK II I figured I should be reasonable. It turned out great, but I just don't like bracelets. Maybe that'll change one day.

I have a G-Shock I occasionally put on for really filthy work or if I know for a fact I'll be banging around on stuff. But that's rare. The only thing more rare is me without a watch.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:30 pm

Damn you, Spratte. I was surfing your links and found that MKII Quad10. I want. But it's sold out. *sigh*

--Donnie

clinehall · **Posted:** Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:31 pm

I forgot to add: I also have a Ladies Longines Platinum and Diamond watch my grandfater gave my grandmother in the 1950's my wife wears that when she really dresses up. I a love the continuation of the giving that started with my grandfather.

David Spratte · **Posted:** Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:54 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Damn you, Spratte. I was surfing your links and found that MKII Quad10. I want. But it's sold out. *sigh*

--Donnie

MKII Vantage is close. You could custom order it and get it even closer. Hell, you might even get it before the Spyder knocks down cones under its own power.

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

A few years ago, Mike Whitney mocked me by listing as a Christmas party "Five Questions" answer: "Art McDonald's 1986 Casio calculator watch". I was furious. True, I wear an ancient Casio watch to autocrosses, but it's not a calculator watch. Just expendable. Mike Dishman got wind of this affront, and bought me a brand new Casio calculator watch for Christmas.

In 2005, I resurrected an analog Citizen watch that my mom - the lady who doesn't want to be registrar, BTW - gave me in 1980. Took it to the Dakota watch kiosk, got a new battery and black leather band. A year later, I was inspecting Lamborghinis on the putting green at Concorso Italiano, and another spectator stops me and asks very seriously: "What kind of watch is that?" Uh.... a Citizen? "Really? Nice looking watch!" However, I could tell he was disappointed.

TomFreeman · **Posted:** Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:32 pm

David Spratte wrote:

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Damn you, Spratte. I was surfing your links and found that MKII Quad10. I want. But it's sold out. *sigh*

--Donnie

MKII Vantage is close. You could custom order it and get it even closer. Hell, you might even get it before the Spyder knocks down cones under its own power.

I can always count on Spratte to shed light on the slightly off the beaten path/interesting/eclectic. One of these might be in my future.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:11 pm

David Spratte wrote:

MKII Vantage is close. You could custom order it and get it even closer. Hell, you might even get it before the Spyder knocks down cones under its own power.

I hate you.

--Donnie

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:26 am

David, you and I are right in line with each other with respect to watches. My entry was a Seiko 6309-7049 (which is an ancestor of your SKX-007). I bought it in the early 1980’s when I was scuba diving. While it’s doesn’t have a great pedigree, it is my personal heirloom watch that I will pass down as it has a lot of sentimental value for me. I have been meaning to send it off to Jack at IWW, but I haven’t decided just yet what I want him to do to it (restore it to stock, or some minor improvements such as better crystal)

clinehall · **Posted:** Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:10 am

ok, my last watch story. When I was graduating from Virginia Tech, I was walking to the ceromony and my Dad nudged me and said her thought you might be able to use this. It was a crappy, crappy old beat up timex on a aftermarket twistoflex band. I said ok Dad thanks. Never thought much about it. Years later, after Dad died, my wife told me about how my dad cried all through the graduation as he was so proud of me. Dad was not a crier. I then realized that my Dad was going through a tough financial time then (I had been on my own paying for college so I was oblivous I guess) that watch was all he could give me. It became very special at that point. Not to wear but to have.

A couple of years ago, my nephew (the one with the red 944 turbo some of you have meet) finally graduated from college. I went to that ceromony and afterwards gave him that watch. Yeah, we cried like babies.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:24 am

Cline's story is a good one and a touching one. It shows that value is really subjective.

On to a story that we all remember:

Remember the watch in Pulp Fiction that Christopher Walken "carried" for a young Bruce Willis' father, when they were in Vietnam? That's sentiment based on sacrifice :lol:

- AB

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:08 am

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Cline's story is a good one and a touching one. It shows that value is really subjective.

On to a story that we all remember:

Remember the watch in Pulp Fiction that Christopher Walken "carried" for a young Bruce Willis' father, when they were in Vietnam? That's sentiment based on sacrifice :lol:

- AB

It's just another example of why Christopher Walken is so great. I love how he gets more animated and emotional as he tells his part in the watch story...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kngBtoylIVM

Stephen Westerfield · **Posted:** Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:08 am

Have any of you got that e-mail that is going around for the watch that will make your manhood bigger? That sounds a lot cheaper than a Corvette.

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