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 Post subject: Water Heater Tech
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 7:22 pm 
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Existing water heater at my house is about 15 years old and running on it's last leg. I plan to install a new one myself in about 3 weeks or so, and trying to do some research on what units are good. So far I don't have any good news...

Home Depot's major brand is GE, which is made by Rheem
Lowes's major brand is Whirlpool, which I heard was State

In both cases they were both rated about the same quality as a volkswagon.

So, anyone have any other brands or places they could share?

I'm looking at a 40gal, short, natural gas unit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:02 pm 
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I was thinking you need a license or at least an inspection to replace a gas water heater, but I may be wrong.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:46 pm 
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Chris Halweg wrote:
I was thinking you need a license or at least an inspection to replace a gas water heater, but I may be wrong.


you only need a license if you are getting an inspection. :)

Michael, i have always heard water heaters are a consumable item much like tires and brake pads.

try a plumbing supply house such as Guilford. 919-662-7110.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:00 pm 
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I've heard great things about the tankless water heaters. Obama's stimulus package included tax credits for these. If mine ever dies I'll probably go that route.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:09 pm 
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I consider them to be consumable that need to be replaced periodically. I would be suprised if one brand is radically better than another, but I have no direct experience regarding brands. Last year I replaced our gas water heater myself (bought a unit from Sears). My understanding is that pretty much most last as long as the sacrificial anode lasts...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrificial_anode

Once the anode is gone then it eventually rusts the tank and it leaks. The tank I bought has an extra anode (knock on wood that it helps it last a bit longer). I think that technically you can replace the anodes and get extra life from the tank (assuming you are able to obtain replacements). I also paid a bit extra for a unit with extra insulation to try to keep the monthly gas bill down.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:45 pm 
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Thanks for the info, keep it coming.

I think Whirlpool is actually made by American water heaters, not State.

Chris-We are all DIYers here! I don't need no stinking inspection

Steve - Thanks, I'll give them a call. Heard about Ferguson too...

Colin - I hate to be the guinea pig, maybe when this one dies in another 10 years I'll think about it.

Richard - I thought I heard good things about whoever makes kenmore, but they don't seem to make one that fits my space.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:19 am 
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I would take a look to see if any models qualify for a tax credit. Our water heater is on its last legs too and considered a tankless unit. Since our home was built in the 70s, the exhaust vent piping is not up to code for a tankless unit and would have to be upgraded to a double lined vent which was texa$ to get installed. I think the jury is still out on the cost of tankless installation vs. cost savings. Consumer Reports had an article recently that said the same thing:
Quote:
Tankless water heaters
They're efficient but not necessarily economical

Heating water accounts for up to 30 percent of the average home's energy budget. Some makers of gas-fired tankless water heaters claim their products can cut your energy costs up to half over regular storage heaters. So is it time to switch?

Probably not. Gas tankless water heaters, which use high-powered burners to quickly heat water as it runs through a heat exchanger, were 22 percent more energy efficient on average than the gas-fired storage-tank models in our tests. That translates into a savings of around $70 to $80 per year, based on 2008 national energy costs. But because they cost much more than storage water heaters, it can take up to 22 years to break even—longer than the 20-year life of many models. Moreover, our online poll of 1,200 readers revealed wide variations in installation costs, energy savings, and satisfaction.

With the help of an outside lab, we pitted Takagi and Noritz gas-fired tankless water heaters against three storage water heaters. We didn't test electric tankless heaters because many can't deliver hot water fast enough to replace a conventional water heater if ground­water is cold. Even in areas with warm groundwater, most homeowners would need to upgrade their electrical service to power a whole-house tankless model.

Our tests simulated daily use of 76 to 78 gallons of hot water. That's the equivalent of taking three showers, washing one laun­dry load, running the dishwasher once (six cycles), and turning on the faucet nine times, for a total of 19 draws. While that's considered heavy use compared with the standard Department of Energy test, we think it more accurately represents an average family's habits. We also ran more than 45,000 gallons of very hard water through a tanked model and a Rinnai tankless model to simulate about 11 years of regular use.

Here's what else we found:

Water runs hot and cold
Manufacturers of tankless water heaters are fond of touting their products' ability to provide an endless amount of hot water. But inconsistent water temperatures were a common complaint among our poll respondents. When you turn on the faucet, tankless models feed in some cold water to gauge how big a temperature rise is needed. If there's cool water lingering in your pipes, you'll receive a momentary "cold-water sandwich" between the old and new hot water. And a tankless water heater's burner might not ignite when you try to get just a trickle of hot water for, say, shaving.

Nor do tankless water heaters deliver hot water instantaneously. It takes time to heat the water to the target temperature, and just like storage water heaters, any cold water in the pipes needs to be pushed out. And tankless models' electric controls mean you'll also lose hot water during a power outage.

Up-front costs are high
The tankless water heaters we tested cost $800 to $1,150, compared with $300 to $480 for the regular storage-tank types. Tankless models need electrical outlets for their fan and electronics, upgraded gas pipes, and a new ventilation system. That can bring average installation costs to $1,200, compared with $300 for storage-tank models.

Tankless units might need more care
During our long-term testing, an indicator on the tankless model warned of scale buildup. We paid $334 for special valves and a plumber to flush out the water heater with vinegar. Many industry pros recommend that tankless models be serviced once a year by a qualified technician. Calcium buildup can decrease efficiency, restrict water flow, and damage tankless models. Experts suggest installing a water softener if your water hardness is above 11 grains per gallon. Ignoring this advice can shorten your warranty.

Efficient storage models are pricey
We also tested the $1,400 Vertex, a high-efficiency storage water heater by A.O. Smith. The manufacturer claims its installation costs are similar to a regular storage model. But its high cost offsets much of the roughly $70 per year the Vertex will save you. Instead, we recommend buying a conventional storage water heater with a 9- or 12-year warranty. In previous tests, we found that those models generally had thicker insulation, bigger burners or larger heating elements, and better corrosion-fighting metal rods called anodes.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:23 am 
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Ferguson's plumbing supply was where we got ours (same thing, 40 gal, gas) from, and it was WAY cheaper than any big box store. We got ours from their place on Old Apex Rd in Cary, not sure if they are still there or not, but it only cost us ~$200 if I remember correctly.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:34 am 
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BriceJohnson wrote:
Ferguson's plumbing supply was where we got ours (same thing, 40 gal, gas) from, and it was WAY cheaper than any big box store. We got ours from their place on Old Apex Rd in Cary, not sure if they are still there or not, but it only cost us ~$200 if I remember correctly.


How long ago was this? I did read about a big cost increase around 2003 or so when the gubmint mandated some sort of gas safety valve.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 11:59 am 
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Make sure your opening to the crawl space if it is going there is big enough. Ask me how I know :oops:

I don't think you'd be guinea pigging the tankless, they have now been around awhile.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:09 pm 
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I replaced mine last year. I looked at the tankless kind but the higher price, larger gas pipe requirement, and changing the flue system scared me away. Mine was in a closet in the kitchen and the door frame had to come out to get the old one out and the new one in. Dealing with the gas line was a little harder than swapping an electric model.

I found out mine had gone bad after talking to Bob Kendrick on the phone. He told me he had to replace one in his house the day before. One hour later I found water on the floor in the kitchen.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 9:11 am 
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RobLupella wrote:
Make sure your opening to the crawl space if it is going there is big enough. Ask me how I know :oops:

I don't think you'd be guinea pigging the tankless, they have now been around awhile.


I replaced the water heater in my first house that was in the crawl space, I was going to get the old one out first and went to push it through the opening, it got lodged, nobody was home, apparenlty the builder had put it in, before the floors or something, can you spell anxiety attack?finally got it dislodged, had to beat the hell out of it with bfh to get it out. My current and all future houses have it in the garage with easy access.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 9:55 am 
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Michael Westerfield wrote:
BriceJohnson wrote:
Ferguson's plumbing supply was where we got ours (same thing, 40 gal, gas) from, and it was WAY cheaper than any big box store. We got ours from their place on Old Apex Rd in Cary, not sure if they are still there or not, but it only cost us ~$200 if I remember correctly.


How long ago was this? I did read about a big cost increase around 2003 or so when the gubmint mandated some sort of gas safety valve.


It was definitely AFTER 2003. Probably 2-3 years ago if I remember correctly.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 10:50 am 
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clinehall wrote:

I replaced the water heater in my first house that was in the crawl space, I was going to get the old one out first and went to push it through the opening, it got lodged, nobody was home, apparenlty the builder had put it in, before the floors or something, can you spell anxiety attack?finally got it dislodged, had to beat the hell out of it with bfh to get it out. My current and all future houses have it in the garage with easy access.


Hey, just don't tell my insurance guy I'm putting it in myself! 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 10:59 am 
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Michael Westerfield wrote:
clinehall wrote:

I replaced the water heater in my first house that was in the crawl space, I was going to get the old one out first and went to push it through the opening, it got lodged, nobody was home, apparenlty the builder had put it in, before the floors or something, can you spell anxiety attack?finally got it dislodged, had to beat the hell out of it with bfh to get it out. My current and all future houses have it in the garage with easy access.


Hey, just don't tell my insurance guy I'm putting it in myself! 8)


oh crap

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