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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:57 pm 
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Les Davis wrote:
Just out of curiousity, what is your 11 lb/hp FWD heavy vehicle? I'm drawing a blank trying to think of what car that would be.


Something that most don't really know about and others kinda laugh at.. :wink:

Its a Buick Regal TEP GSX (SLP Stage III equivelent).

3400 lbs...around 300/310 HP.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:17 pm 
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I think 300 hp would be just about right for my car. Anybody want to donate an STi engine?

:D


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:50 pm 
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I bought the current issue of the British magazine Evo this evening. It has a comparison review of the STi RA Spec-C. Freaking awesome. They were comparing it to things like the Elise and TVR and Renault Clio V6... It soundly trounced all of them on real roads.

Too bad it would cost $$$$$ to convert a US STi to something similar. Apparently the things that make the car an RA (Rally Aspirant) are done at the factory, early in the build process. Things like seam welding and chassis reinforcement in addition to the standard boost increase and stiff suspension.

Sorry, just had to drool publicly a bit. :D

--Kevin H.

Edit: the RA is about 9:1 power/weight. It has 335 HP and is somewhere around 3000 Lb.

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Last edited by Kevin Hoff on Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:54 pm 
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92 Vette (LT1). 11lb/hp. 10lb/tq.
96 Vette (LT4). 10lb/hp. 10lb/tq.
95 Vette (ZR1). 8.4lb/hp. 8.8lb/tq.

Weight distribution. 51/49 front/rear.

Almost 1G skidpad with Z51 or Z07 suspension.

And they look good :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:44 pm 
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Marty Howard wrote:
Something that most don't really know about and others kinda laugh at.. :wink:

Its a Buick Regal TEP GSX (SLP Stage III equivelent).

3400 lbs...around 300/310 HP.


Ah, a Buick with the same SC 3.8 engine as in the Grand Prix GTP?? Pretty interesting sleeper. Probably not the best handling car in the world. :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:49 pm 
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Les Davis wrote:

Ah, a Buick with the same SC 3.8 engine as in the Grand Prix GTP?? Pretty interesting sleeper. Probably not the best handling car in the world. :-)


Correct on all accounts.

:wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:45 pm 
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BTW, I just read the new Tacoma X-Runner will be 300 HP, ~2800 lbs and be able to do .9 G's on the Skid pad. (all quoted from Toyota).

That's RWD, 9.83 lb/hp ratio, and handling to boot

Too bad it's a Truck, but it's not bad looking.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:06 pm 
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Marty Howard wrote:
BTW, I just read the new Tacoma X-Runner will be 300 HP, ~2800 lbs and be able to do .9 G's on the Skid pad. (all quoted from Toyota).

That's RWD, 9.83 lb/hp ratio, and handling to boot

Too bad it's a Truck, but it's not bad looking.


You actually made me go look at the website. It's only 240 HP. You can "add" a dealer-installed TRD supercharger for 300 ... riiiight. Where did you find the weight? 2800 lb is really, really hard to believe. 7-seconds 0-60 sounds more like 3200+ lb to me with those uber-grippy tires they must have on there for 0.9G.

"Power will be provided by a four-liter, 240 horsepower V6 engine with 275 pounds of torque and a six-speed close-ratio manual transmission. For buyers looking for an added boost over this already impressive powertrain, a TRD-developed, fully factory warranted supercharger system will be offered, capable of providing output in the neighborhood of 300 horsepower. The Tacoma X-Runner will be capable of zero-to-60 acceleration in seven seconds, with times reduced by more-than an additional second with the optional supercharger system."

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:40 pm 
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Yep, I should have said "up to 300 HP", and pasted the article link.

I was basing the weight off the 2004 models:

Reg Cab 2WD 2750
Ext Cab 2WD 2950
Ext Cab Prerunner 3125
Ext Cab PreRunner Auto 3355

The X-runner looks to be the Ext Cab only, so the ~3200 is probably closer.

BTW fo those looking for the full press release:
http://www.theautochannel.com/F/news/2004/02/04/179271.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:47 am 
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First, Buy something pre 1996 that doesn't have OBD2 and then you can do what you want with the emmission and exhaust system after 2006. That is thanks to the State of North Carolina.

Second, 180 to 217 hp, rear drive with back seats under 2800 lbs. can be had all day long for well under $18K if you are in the market for a Porsche 911 vintage 1978 to 1989. My neighbor has a 1987 Carrera for sale and would take about $17k. Earlier in the range, cars can be had for under $10k. I know of an '80 911 targa that runs well and looks OK that could be had for $7500.

Contrary to popular belief, most Porsche club owners who autocross or track cars do it on a shoestring budget compared to what it would cost to setup a more modern car.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:49 pm 
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Dave Phillips wrote:
First, Buy something pre 1996 that doesn't have OBD2 and then you can do what you want with the emmission and exhaust system after 2006. That is thanks to the State of North Carolina.


I've always wondered...what exactly is the law on this in NC. Is this a new law that cars older than 1996 won't be tested for emmissions anymore after 2006, or cars older than 10 years aren't emmission tested anymore.

I thought that currently the line is drawn in the sand at 1980. Someone please inform me. I'm in Wake county btw.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:26 pm 
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The Current law is any car older than 30 years is exempt from emissions testing. Cars between then and 1996 only need emissions, cars newer than 96 have to have OBDII testing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:28 pm 
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Yes, there are plenty of older vehicles that you can find. The point I was trying to make is why doesn't someone make a new car equevilent (sp?). Plus the 911 doesn't have four full size seats.. :wink: :P :D

Dave Phillips wrote:
First, Buy something pre 1996 that doesn't have OBD2 and then you can do what you want with the emmission and exhaust system after 2006. That is thanks to the State of North Carolina.

Second, 180 to 217 hp, rear drive with back seats under 2800 lbs. can be had all day long for well under $18K if you are in the market for a Porsche 911 vintage 1978 to 1989. My neighbor has a 1987 Carrera for sale and would take about $17k. Earlier in the range, cars can be had for under $10k. I know of an '80 911 targa that runs well and looks OK that could be had for $7500.

Contrary to popular belief, most Porsche club owners who autocross or track cars do it on a shoestring budget compared to what it would cost to setup a more modern car.


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 Post subject: Maybe a Nomad??
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:24 am 
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Nomad Gets Prelim. Green Light
Family of rear-drivers grows as Solstice closes in.
by Paul A. Eisenstein (2004-02-16)


Big things quite literally do come in small packages, as General Motors is intent on proving with a procession of high-profile products that will share the same sporty platform as the upcoming Pontiac Solstice roadster.

The sporty Chevrolet Nomad concept vehicle, first shown at the Detroit auto show last month, is tentatively approved for production by mid 2007, while an assortment of other sporty spin-offs of the new Kappa "architecture" are set to follow, well-placed sources tell TheCarConnection.com. These include a new Chevrolet coupe, a hardtop Buick convertible, and the long-sought "entry" model for Cadillac.

"We look at (Kappa-based vehicles) as a high-volume proposal that could really be sold anywhere in the world," senior GM designer Dave Lyon declared during a recent design forum in Toronto.

Accidental host

Ironically, the promising Kappa platform came about almost by accident. When he joined General Motors in August 2001, "car czar" Bob Lutz told his design team he wanted them to create a small, sporty show car that would debut the following January at Detroit's North American International Auto Show. Despite the speed the top-secret program required, the team assigned to the project produced a striking, back-to-basics running roadster that borrowed heavily from GM's global parts bin.

Strong public acclaim quickly convinced Lutz and other senior managers to put the Solstice into production. There was only one problem: they had nothing to build it on. GM's new Delta architecture, used for the subcompact Chevrolet Cobalt, didn't have the right dimensions and wouldn't have supported the sporty performance Solstice demanded. So it quickly became apparent an all-new platform was needed.

Using state-of-the-art electronic design tools, "We were able to cut 20 months off the development cycle," explained Lyon. Digital design also made it possible to build a great degree of flexibility into the Kappa architecture - GM-speak for a highly adaptable platform. That was critical because the inexpensive - base price under $20,000 - and relatively low-volume Solstice alone couldn't justify Kappa's development costs.

An assortment of possible spinoffs have begun showing up, both publicly and inside GM's well-guarded product development studios. The first, the Vauxhall Lightning, was produced for the automaker's British subsidiary and intended to underscore Kappa's global potential.

Nomadic tribe

Two more potential spinoffs were unveiled in Detroit in January. The Nomad takes its cues from a memorable, if difficult-to-describe, concept vehicle that first appeared 50 years ago at the legendary GM Autorama traveling road show. The newest model shares the basic, wagon-like exterior, integrating elements of both a sports car and an SUV.

There are plenty of what designers like to call "heritage" touches, including the fan-shaped instrument cluster and Chevy bowties etched into the interior aluminum, though the Nomad is not another retro-mobile. The new design features cutting-edge LED headlamps and taillamps, for example. The show car's tailgate folds down to reveal a pullout cargo bed. The rear roof panel can be manually removed, meanwhile, to create a sort of convertible effect. The Nomad is powered by a turbocharged Ecotec 2.2-liter four-cylinder engine turning out 210 horsepower.

The Saturn Curve, meanwhile, "defines a new direction for Saturn," said Lyon, with its goal to "make really good-looking cars for Saturn." The concept vehicle is bold, with a healthy dose of machismo. There are muscular, flaring front fenders wrapped around huge tires. The roof makes extensive use of glass to create an impression of almost floating atop the car's body.

Both vehicles required engineers to stretch the Kappa platform. The Chevrolet Nomad, with its 2+2 configuration, has a 107-inch wheelbase, two inches longer than the Pontiac Solstice. Senior sources revealed they have to work out some issues before these prototypes can be translated into production, such as repositioning the gas tank. But this is not seen as an insurmountable obstacle, as Kappa was conceived to support a variety of different vehicle dimensions.

The Nomad is now undergoing active - and rapid - development, with its roll-out tentatively scheduled for the mid-2007 model-year.

Kappa, Kappa, Kappa

Sources have told TCC the Curve also has been given a go, though the production version of this four-seater would be a good bit different than the low-roof NAIAS show car. But the Curve would provide the foundation for plans to rebuild the Saturn brand. In production, Saturn is expected to get both a coupe and sedan version of Curve, which would be slotted between the current L-Series and the smaller, much-maligned ION.

These three products would only begin to explore the possible applications for the sporty, rear-drive Kappa chassis, with its low center of gravity and short overhangs. Sources suggested a range of other products are under active consideration, including a Buick four-passenger model that could be equipped with a retractable hardtop.

Meanwhile, Kappa has a good shot at providing the foundation for a long-debated "entry" Cadillac model. GM officials have long argued over the need for a Caddy smaller than the current CTS model to compete with the likes of the BMW 3-Series and Mercedes-Benz C-Class. So far, they've said no, fearing such a product would have simply cheapened the brand, according to Cadillac insiders.

Kappa could help shift the equation. Its proportions would create a vehicle that was sporty and crisp, and the sharp-lined Lightning indicates the sort of look that would match-up with Caddy's distinctive "Art & Science" design theme.

The most active project would use the new platform as the base for a sporty coupe along the lines of the Mercedes CLK. Alternatively, it could be adapted into an SLK-style convertible. That would pair nicely with the Caddy XLR, which itself goes up against the high-end Benz SL roadster.

While there'd likely be a premium placed on the proposed Caddy, and the Buick, with a retractable hardtop, other Kappa models would continue to place an emphasis on "affordable." The new Solstice will carry a base price of under $20,000, and the Curve and the Nomad likely wouldn't be much higher than that "benchmark," stressed a GM source involved in the planning and development of the Kappa program.

There's tremendous support within General Motors for the various Kappa projects. With its low center of gravity, short overhangs, big wheels, and generally sporty dimensions, the platform is expected to provide a very visible base for GM's efforts to regain styling leadership in the global auto industry.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:47 am 
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Starting in 2006, the state will eliminate tailpipe testing in those counties where it was required (it was not state-wide). Safety inspection will still be required on all vehicles. This should include a visual inspection for standard equipment (i.e. CAT). However, no emmissions testing will be done on cars that don't have OBDII, which became standard on new cars in 1996.

I understand that the cost for all state inspections will increase regardless of whether emmission testing is required (go figure, the state raising a fee).

I don't suspect that getting a sticker for a modified car would be any harder han it has been in the past, but we will see in a couple of years.

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