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Aren't those two statements mutually exclusive?


Doesn't Mazda know they already have built a MSMX5 in 2007??? Oh that's right, only the SEB thinks they did...

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

I wonder how many "trunk kits" that Pontiac sold for the Solstice that same year vs how many of them came installed on the cars ... weren't there like 5 that were shipped from the factory with the trunk kit already installed?

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

That's 5 more than Mazda built or even produced the parts for. Mazda Japan says that the model never existed, much less offered or built as far as they are concerned.
The ZOK was never a "trunk kit", every part has a part # and is still carried in inventory, none of it was aftermarket sourced, and the package is still available as a legitimate option.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

This debate AGAIN? For real? I still find it incredulous that someone could lambast the SEB over the MSR Miata who owns a first year ZOK GXP. You should be thanking the SEB. At least Mazda had their announcement about their car before the cutoff. It was the Solstice owners who got the biggest "gift" in that whole scenario, especially when you consider what the CRB did to the MSR package.

The conversion parts weren't available until, what, a month before Nationals for a GXP ZOK? If that? The only cars in the wild that entire year from the factory were already pre-ordered and never available to any normal individual. Oh yeah, that Mazda thing was SOOOOO much worse.


--Donnie

Donnie, please I did not dig up this horse, I just want the facts straight.
The ZOK parts were available in time to build the 5 2007 GXP ZOKs that rolled off the assembly line in March, before the model year changeover. We all waited until Aug for the SEB to finally decide if they were going to allow the conversion.
"Mazda (Mazda SPEED USA that is) announced" the MSR by providing the SEB with a screen shot of a hacked order screen for an option that was never accepted or recognized by the factory. An outrageous price was added to the hacked option to discourage anyone from trying to order it and to flag such an order so it could be pulled and diverted to MS. The MSR parts are NOT in the factory replacement parts list, they were only a collection of aftermarket parts assembled by and only available thru MS. The first MSR I know of was Darrin's, and he put that one together even later than ours or anyone elses GXP ZOK. The SEB was sold a bill of goods by MS plain and simple. When finally outed MS threatened to take their ball and go play at NASA (withdraw their support of the SCCA).
The SEB didn't give us a "gift" they decided they had set a precident that backed themselves into a corner with. Let's call a spade a spade and move on.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

Chuck,

Please don't take this assault, because it's not intended that way. I don't have a dog in these fights and feel as though I'm pretty objective.

This issue is over a year old! Please, please, for the love of god, move on to some other issue. FWIW, I was happy the SEB declared your car legal last year as it didn't seem fair to penalize current owners when the Z0K would be legal for the next year. From my uninformed/uneducated perspective the SEB chose practicality over strict interpretation of the rules. Translated, I also felt GXP owners did indeed get a big gift last year, which is fine as the SCCA is a club and can choose common sense over bureacracy. I don't have the time, desire, or interest to debate a myriad of classing decisions so that's not my intent.

I also don't care that they allowed a trunk kit for the Miatas, even though the strength of the new Miata was the primary reason we sold our car. I could have been really ticked since I lost the Pro Championship by a hair to Darrin's truck kit equiped car, but have never given it another thought until about 10 minutes ago. It seems like a practical decision that saves CS, makes it a balanced class by offering another relatively affordable car option in an expensive sport. W/o that CS would be a dying class as it was last year.

You and Donna bought a car last year that appeared uncompetitive, then got to add the Z0K package to make it arguably the best car in class *overnight* for Tours. I realize this is a pationate subject for you and it's easy to lose perspective, but most people would be happy about the entire situation since you now have a great car for the class and not continue to dwell on something that is over and done with.

Also, since I'm sure the thought will cross someone's mind since Donnie and I are friends...we rarely ever talk about SEB stuff b/c I have almost no interest in it *and* he just doesn't talk about it.

I look forward to seeing everyone at nationals.

Eric

For people who claim to "not have a dog in the fight" or care about what happened a year ago, or no longer have a connection to Mazda, there are a lot of panties in a bunch about a satirical comment I made in reference to an announcement by Mazda and the wool that was pulled over the eyes of the SEB by MS!
Suddenly it's about how glad I should be that the SEB followed their rules in making a decision on the ZOK???
I am grateful that GM did not abandon the 07 GXPs by actually building some 07 GXP ZOKs per SCCA's mandates and that the option made it possible to convert our car into a more potent class competitor. (not exactly the class killer, nor would it have been a major underdog as demonstrated by Eric's trophy finish in Steve's Redline.) I didn't even comment to the SEB before they made their decision tho, since it was formatted as an appeal of a protest as to the legality of the option package applying to the 07, not as a rules decision open for member comment.
How did allowing the MSR into CS help the class stay healthy? Last I knew there were only 2 or 3 MSRs running nationally in CS, a number fewer than the NB and Base Solstice drivers that abandoned the class that they could no longer be competitve in like yourself. C/S National Championship entries: 2005 48, 2006 45, 2007 25, 2008 28.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

Chuck, YOU brought up this argument again FIRST. You responded to Marty's comment about an MSM MX-5 with:



First, Marty was talking about something more along the lines of a turbo car like the original Mazdaspeed Miata, not some minor little suspension upgrade. But you chose to make this about the MSR package and at the same time roll your eyes directly at the SEB, not at Mazda for the trickery. So don't try to deflect this at Mazda after the fact, and PLEASE don't try to say it wasn't you who brought up the trunk kit FIRST.

Past that, you can keep believing all you want that GM somehow did better than Mazda in all this. The reality, however, is that the CRB (probably due to GM influence) hosed Mazda. Mazda RUSHED and probably did bend a few things to get the MSR approved "in time." The CRB approved it and PEOPLE BUILT SSB CARS. THEN THEY RACED THOSE CARS. And THEN the CRB decided to make them illegal before the runoffs. That's right, a complete takeback that rendered a lot of money and time useless. And it soured the Mazda relationship so bad that Mazda made some noise. I WOULD HAVE TOO! And so would you, if you had still been a Mazda driver, I'd bet.

The solo world got ignored in all of it, and since the car wasn't legal any more in SSB Mazda didn't bother getting it into all the proper systems. But the SEB had already made it legal and stuck to it so as not to screw anyone who had one in process.

GM converted the last five cars on the assembly line to ZKTs and presold them. They even bumped ordered cars to 2008 models to do it! So no 2007 ZKTs were available to everyone for purchase, so that situation is NO DIFFERENT than the MSR. None. Mazda would have done it the same way if they were building MX-5's in the US, but they happen to be in Japan....I'll bet the GM "factory" that put those ZKT parts on was the GM Performance Division workshop, which is really no different than the Mazda port.

GM got the parts done WAY later than Mazda, so we had no idea what we were even dealing with. Solo people DID get to test the Mazda parts in private through their process, so we did have some idea of what we were dealing with. GM, OTOH, let their factory team show up and win an event on parts that nobody else knew about. Yeah, that's the best way to introduce an option package!

You're logic is twisted and your viewpoint completely biased. And you brought it all up. And you took a shot at the SEB knowing full well I'm here. Can't wait to see how I'm the bad guy in this one. This will be good. I need that popcorn emoticon again.


--Donnie

It's fine if someone has a different opinion on car classing or whatever issue in life and participates in a vibrant debate on the matter - that's healthy. After all, where you stand depends on where you sit. I really don't care about the Solstice/MX-5 issue, my point was that I and likely many others on the forum are tired of the same issue being brought up by you and beaten to death well over a year after it's been settled. You and others are certainly free to use the forum however you'd like. I'm just curious if we can look forward to further posts on this subject for decades to come?

Eric

I created this thread by splitting it off the MX5 thread

http://www.thscc.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8362

Keep discussing if you wish, or let it die. I don't care either way, but keep it civil.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

We have already had 4 "You started it" - "No - You Started it" - "No - YOU started it"'s and one "For the Love of GOD" s. Uncivil should start soon.

Rules are stupid when they don't go my way.

IBTL

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OK so I'm back in. Now which tire should I buy??

Quoted for truf!

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Todd Breakey
STS 42 - 1992 Sunburst Miata
Dammit!
"You souldn't play leap frog with a porcupine. You might get hurt." - Eliza

ok, ok. It seems there is no point in keeping this thread open other than to push people's buttons or provide a stage for the peanut gallery.

Consider it locked.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.