THSCC Forums

I agree with regard to cars they have for sale now...pretty amazing to see what Detriot has finally been able to produce after sooo many years of "almost-there" cars. I've been a car nut since I was maybe 8 years old (which would have been 1967), so I've been through the whole process of seeing GM and other US makers fall from grace and return (or disappear). I'm still stunned by the LS7 engine design as I think it is actually a more sophisticated accomplishment than something like the BMW V10 or whatever. The LS7 is an amazing combination of efficiency, weight and power all done with a pushrod 2-valve design.

On the other subject...one thing is a fact at the moment...you would have been a lot better off in GM stock since early 2006 than Wachovia (or any other large and most mid/small size banks for that matter). Better off meaning you would have lost a lot less money that is...

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

I remember my father's 65 Chevelle Malibu SS with the 282 4 speed. That got traded in for a brand new 1969 Camaro Z/28. So I had a fun childhood of being taxied about in a true performance car. I was more of a Trans-Am fanatic than a NASCAR fan. Rooting on the Camaros and hating life when the Mustangs won.

Forty years later I am getting a chance to live out my fantasy as a child...

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

That's awesome.

My dad bought a 63 Vette convertible in 1963 which was stolen in 1965, so he bought a 65 Vette which was stolen in 1968. Then he bought a 1968 Firebird convertible, 4spd Hurst stick, 350 H.O. motor option -- white/red interior. I still remember what they offered on trade in 1972 when he bought a BMW Bavaria -- $800 (and it was in great shape too).

I was always more interested in road racing too having spent many visits to Lime Rock for the TransAm series back then only later to move to Atlanta and get to see the IMSA series grow through in its infancy at RA.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

You don't lose a thing until you sell and Wachovia will rebound. In my case, I have bought less than 5% of my overall shares, thanks to stock grants, so even if I did sell, I'm still making money.

If GM didn't sell off GMAC to Cerberus earlier this year, they would be looking at much bigger losses. Besides, looking at stock all depends upon the period when you're looking at. For example, since Jan 1, 2004, GM's is down 60.4%, while Wachovia for the same period is down 35.7% (both adjusted for divedends and splits). - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Just before I was born in '72, my dad picked up a '69 Corvette with the 560 hp 427 w/4 barrel Holley w/sidepipes. When my parents got divorced in '75 he had '71 Corvette with 454 big block. Both were Monaco Orange with 4 speed manuals. At 3 years old, I can remember my sisters being 2 deep in the passenger seat and I was riding on the center console when my dad would pick us up for visits. Yeah, there wasn't the stigma there is today with child safety back then - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Re time period selected, yep, as a statistician will say, just tell him what answer you need, and he'll be back in a moment with the stats to support it.

I was just referring to a division spread I popped up of WB/GM. It looks like a great ride short WB/long GM for the past 2 years...really nice trend in the spread as WB has cratered. It's about to the point where taking profits (risk) out of it looks ripe though.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

So what you're saying is because you can't believe people would bash GM that we must be bashing Chuck?!?



Maybe that is part of why we're bashing them? I mean their performance cars are only going to be a tiny part of figuring a way to survive in the long run. But since they are committed to it, yes, most of us WOULD like to see them survive. Particularly since, as you say, their demise would be really bad for the US in general, even if one didn't plan to buy anything from GM.

Sure, I'm no GM lover as I grew up in more of a Ford family. But I still feel like I'm looking at it pretty objectively when I say that GM is in worse shape than Ford. That said, Chrysler is in even worse shape than GM. I am not a fan of anything Chrysler other than Jeep, and yet I'd hate to see them go, too.

So I'm not really bashing the entity so much as several of the departments within (like the folks doing the styling and the folks doing the marketing for the most part, plus whoever keeps letting the sub-brands compete with each other as much or more than they compete with other manufacturers).

I'm still waiting for how this was about Chuck.


--Donnie

Have you looked at the numbers lately? Ford is about to tank again, the last quarters earnings were an anomoly and Mulally doesn't see improvement in the near future. More buyouts and plant closings likely.

<chris crocker>Leave Chuck alone!!!</chris crocker>

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Hey, I never said Ford was in GOOD shape.


--Donnie

See, I think they are getting better on this one. They are FINALLY brining some of the cool stuff from Europe and not trying to make it look like an Aztek.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

Then I don't know what "objectivity " means then. Ford is deep peril. They are selling off piece meal, have no global platforms and nothing in the pipeline except the new F Series and more special edition Mustangs. The only home run they have had in the past 5 years was introducing Sync. And that was a coup, but the agreement expires in a few months and everyone will be offering it.

Their motorsports program is non-existence and they have nothing that appeals to the enthusiast except the Shelby. Even their die-hard tuners are branching out to take on other makes. Who would have thought of Roush Silverados and other GM products?

As for the Chuck bashing, come on get real. On Memorial Day, thirty minutes after he posts generally known info on the G8 and the proposed Ute you are on contradicting him with your opinion. When it is well known he drives a Pontiac and his wife is trying to make a living selling Pontiacs.

You and Aaron are suppose to be grown adults and it generally accepted as soon as Chuck puts up a post, you two are going to contradict him. I really think y'all have bots out there searching all of these forums. It is tired and annoying.

I and I only speak for myself would be more amazed if Chuck put up a post and I did not see a response from either of you. I am not sure what this infatuation you have with Chuck, but maybe it is time for you guys to grow up and drop it.

I find his post a bit redundant, the information is already out there and has been, but far more relevant than anything you or Aaron have posted. To be fair, my opinion holds as much sway with you as yours does with me.

IBTL.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

So I did a quick search on all posts by Chuck then looked to see. Out of his last thirteen posts, I responded to him exactly twice and responded directly after him once, but I don't think I contradicted him and wasn't even responding to him at all, just the original poster. Scanning back further than that and the ratio appears similar. One of those contradictions was this thread, the other was when he said 285 Kumhos won't bead on a 8" rim when I know for a fact that they actually will if you know the trick. The other immediately following was about electrical help for wiring a trailer. He said he did all his own and I said if it were me I'd use an electrician. Sure, that's a contradiction, but I'm not even sure if I read his post to know what he said on that topic when I posted my own opinion. Much like this thread, that opinion would be the same AND I WOULD HAVE POSTED IT no matter who posted what Chuck posted. Same with the tire thing.

I haven't posted anything personal toward Chuck in quite some time, even though he has with me. I have contradicted him, but I've contradicted other people here, too. He and I have had our troubles in the past, but I'm not looking to start any more, in spite of what you and Graham seem to think. Again, please point out the alleged bashing. Plenty of other people have posted contradictory opinions in this thread. Are they bashing Chuck, too? Or am I and Aaron the only ones not allowed to even post in a thread that Chuck starts?

Searching him out? Please. When I did that search I found several posts of his that I had never seen before. That was the FIRST time I've ever done a search with his userid, too. And if you think I have no ability to let things go, you should be privy to the private crap that's gone on in the past, believe me. But it's not worth rehashing again.

You lack plenty of objectivity in my opinion as well, Jim. And you're basically lodging personal attacks that I just don't get. I hope Chuck and Donna live long and happy lives even though I'm certain we'll never be friends, and that's fine. But I don't consider them any kind of enemy, either.


--Donnie

This post is tired and annoying. I'll make sure not to post on any Chuck thread again. - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Yep, Ford's in trouble. They were in trouble in 1927 and in 1985 too, but were saved by good new products (Model A, Taurus). Granted, this time it's worse, with Honda and Toyota gobbling up the center of the sedan market, high pension costs, and an overdependence on trucks.

You forgot the new Taurus (not the 2008 chrome-engineered Five Hundred ... Lord, I'm sorry about that...) and the Ford Flex. The Flex looks like a cross between a Range Rover and a Mini, stretched to seat 9. Should be a neat alternative to large CUVs (or is it a CUV?) Anyway, Shultz has ordered one with woodgrain sides to tow the S2000 Oh, and the updated 2010 Mustang, with the 6.2 liter V8 option.

Sync - I never bothered to find out what that was... I don't like to think of my favorite car company getting into bed with my least favorite robber baron.. but I can take comfort in the knowledge that the styling of the 2008 Focus (Lord, I'm really sorry about that...) has got to have cost Bill tens of millions in royalties....

The very existence of the "Life in D" ad campaign last year probably negates the promotional value all of Ford's past and future racing exploits, but I'd like to point out that a Ford powered car won the Rolex 24 at Daytona this year, and remind you that Ford Racing 500Cs fill the grids in Grand Am Cup. And there's Nascar, which is all most folks know about motorsports anyway. If you're talking about grass-roots motorsports programs -- they don't affect overall sales anyway, so why bother?

Anyway, at least Chuck is getting some mileage out his posting

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Art McDonald
Premier Amateur #518
2008 Dishman Cup
Pivot Cone Snob

Rodney is a waxer (but in a good way)