how have gas prices effected you?

clinehall · **Posted:** Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:48 pm

What about the Biofuel idea? I read the article in the latest GRM and I am considering giving it a try. Was going to look for TDI's

My office manager has an old 240d in great shape maybe try on hers.

I keep on thinking about riding my motorcycle to work but it's only 10 miles round trip so we are not looking at a significant savings. I also don't get any advertising out of the bike

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:00 pm

I'm not about to swap a paid for 23 mpg freeway commute low miles 2001 Mustang V-8 for a new or even comparably priced used car that gets 30 mpg in order to save $500 or $600 per year. Basically anything I would even consider would probably cost more overall or if used would involve more repair time/cost risk. :lol:

Ditto for the 16 - 18 mpg around town high mileage 97 Mustang GT we use for other driving. Heck, it is almost a classic.

What has changed is substantially less motivation to take the 9 mpg tow vehicle and the race car to autocrosses. :cry:

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:04 pm

In regard to TDI's: What is the maintenance on those? I seem to recall someone telling me about HUGE repair bills for removing carbon from one of the manifolds. I didn't pay much attention since I HATE the sound and smell of diesel. :wink:

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:16 pm

The S2000 is the only car I've owned that I can actually notice a sizable drop in MPG just from autocrossing. Track driving in the old Integra, sure, the fuel mileage would tank (ha!). The S2000 goes from 26 or so mpg to 21-22 on the day of an autocross.

Threads like this one make me start to do some mental math, and I'm often not thrilled with my findings. We're going to the Doublecross with brand new tires, that's bad enough - now it's gonna be a couple hundred bucks in fuel down and back. It only runs on premium. So let's see...

- $1200 worth of tires, mounted and balanced
- $200 worth of gas
- $200 or so, give or take, in hotel and food costs on the weekend
- $80 or so in entry fees

I feel a little sick to my stomach all of a sudden.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Not wanting to get too political, but I wonder what the "no blood for oil" guys are saying about this upsurge in price. I have heard the Obama radio ads that blame XOM's profits, but there has to be something else out there. Maybe ninja pirates are to blame, who knows, they're frickin' good at what they do. :wink:

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:46 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

... and if the gas prices were to come down....

Take a deep breath....

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:52 pm

Matthew Fortner wrote:

I'm looking for folks who have made some changes due to gas prices for a story that will appear in the N&O. I am a photo editor there.

It might be that you have cut back on track events or recently bought a fuel sipper. Maybe you've made cuts to accommodate or looking to make tough decisions? Started car pooling? Really whatever goes.

I know I've altered how I run errands now. As much as I like taking care of things immediately, I know wait a bit and combine tasks where I can to reduce travel.

Not really looking to be in the N&O but here is our list...

* Not going to replace existing cars right now due to them still having life in them, but if we were to do so, we would seriously downsize (probably dump the van, or keep it and buy a new every day car for Tina). Have been semi looking at a Honda Fit and a few other cars.
* More "family" trips in Civic (30 MPG) vs. Odyssey (21 MPG)
* Trying to optimize trips to cut down on total number.
* Less long distance driving (fewer visits to relatives)

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:01 pm

Todd Breakey wrote:

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

Carl Fisher wrote:

Todd Breakey wrote:

As soon as the Mustang sells, I'll be on the look out for a Jetta TDI.

Unless you have other factors influencing your decision (desire to run biodiesel, for example), the increased fuel economy of diesel is now fully offset by the premium in diesel fuel price. And with demand for diesel worldwide (and domestically) growing much faster than demand for gasoline, that equation is not going to be looking better anytime soon.

Couple that with the fact that....well, it's a VW. I'd much rather walk out in the morning to find my car on empty than wondering whether or not it is even going to start.

As I said in my last post, unfortunately Honda doesn't import their diesel Accord to the US. If they did, I would be looking for one of them. Until they do, your only diesel car selections are VW and Mercedes. And the Mercs are not even a consideration.

I believe the European diesel Accord (4 cyl) will show up next year as an Acura. Then in 2010, I think Honda is going to add a v6 diesel to some cars. I am guessing the Odyssey and maybe the Honda/Acura SUVs.

Still as Carl points out the jury is still out regarding world wide diesel supply and demand issues and if diesel is going to make sense from a $$ perspective.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:07 am

Wes Eargle wrote:

Not wanting to get too political, but I wonder what the "no blood for oil" guys are saying about this upsurge in price. I have heard the Obama radio ads that blame XOM's profits, but there has to be something else out there. Maybe ninja pirates are to blame, who knows, they're frickin' good at what they do. :wink:

ok Wes. so Obama is a fruit tastic maroon. paaaah-leaeeeese, he lost me a while back. "we will take back the oil companies' profits", sell it to somebody else, i don't belive it.

and honestly, i am offended that he might believe i would buy such a crock of shit.

clinehall · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:37 am

steve remchak wrote:

Wes Eargle wrote:

Not wanting to get too political, but I wonder what the "no blood for oil" guys are saying about this upsurge in price. I have heard the Obama radio ads that blame XOM's profits, but there has to be something else out there. Maybe ninja pirates are to blame, who knows, they're frickin' good at what they do. :wink:

ok Wes. so Obama is a fruit tastic maroon. paaaah-leaeeeese, he lost me a while back. "we will take back the oil companies' profits", sell it to somebody else, i don't belive it.

and honestly, i am offended that he might believe i would buy such a crock of shit.[/quote

Wow, that comes from my favorite liberal friend, well I only have two liberal friends and the other guy tends to be a real ass. :twisted:

Back on topic, on the TDI front I have a banker friend ( conservative) who did a cost analysis of his ownership and he said the repair cost, of course done at dealer, negated fuel savings and this was a few years back when diesel was under gas prices.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:32 am

Karl Shultz wrote:

The S2000 is the only car I've owned that I can actually notice a sizable drop in MPG just from autocrossing. Track driving in the old Integra, sure, the fuel mileage would tank (ha!). The S2000 goes from 26 or so mpg to 21-22 on the day of an autocross.

Threads like this one make me start to do some mental math, and I'm often not thrilled with my findings. We're going to the Doublecross with brand new tires, that's bad enough - now it's gonna be a couple hundred bucks in fuel down and back. It only runs on premium. So let's see...

- $1200 worth of tires, mounted and balanced
- $200 worth of gas
- $200 or so, give or take, in hotel and food costs on the weekend
- $80 or so in entry fees

I feel a little sick to my stomach all of a sudden.

Let's see how my May 3rd and 4th race at CMP stacks up to your autocross trip.

- $200 worth of tires
- $150 worth of gas
- $50 worth of food
- $300 entry fee

So it is $500 cheaper than your tires. My track time will be 70 minutes per day. Nope, don't miss those kinds of autocrosses.

I will leave Raleigh around 1 PM Friday afternoon and be home by 6 or 7 Sunday evening.

Dave Frankel · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:00 am

Lot of talk about Exxon profits, but that $40B represents a not-so-astonishing 11% margin... Also realize that some people's 'suggestions' would mean taking money from your personal and/or retirement investments... Soap-box off.

Family drives 44k miles / yr and my fleet average mpg is now 34.3 - biggest reason for that is the old 88 Civic w/320k miles pulling down 53 mpg due to fuel-efficient driving techniques and 50 psi in the tires. (EPA was 32 / 37). S2000 is dragging it down at 27-28 mpg - nothing short of embarrasing for a small, lightweight, 2.0L, high-compression machine with an H on the hood. ITR has a less-sophistocated engine and easily gets 30-33.

There is a tremendous amount of potential fuel/cost savings by changing the WAY you drive (particularly with manual trannsmission).

Anybody with an instantaneous mpg gauge in their vehicle has a very powerful feedback tool for optimizing efficiency. If you don't have one (and you have an OBD II vehicle), you can get a scangauge for $150 (new), which is an OBD II scanner / mpg gauge that has a dedicated readout of 4 different sensors etc. Note-however, you will not see accurate mpg numbers from these things unless your car has a mass-airflow sensor...

PhilFausz · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:13 am

To add to what Dave said, you can probably connect a vaccum gauge and get feedback as to how efficient you're driving.

I agree with Dave that driving technique plays a BIG factor. However, I have proven unable to apply efficient driving techniques anytime a slow car gets in my way. Oh well!

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:41 am

clinehall wrote:

What about the Biofuel idea? I read the article in the latest GRM and I am considering giving it a try. Was going to look for TDI's

You can't run straight B100 in any TDI. I seem to remember that they can do mo more than about B20 on the older TDIs and B5 on the most recent. I haven't heard if the new CleanTDI can accept BioDiesel at all.

DickRasmussen wrote:

In regard to TDI's: What is the maintenance on those? I seem to recall someone telling me about HUGE repair bills for removing carbon from one of the manifolds.

Yes, a TDI is a little more maintenance intensive than a gasser. But most of the maint can be done by a good DIY. The intake manifold is one such repair. Most shadetree mechanics could take on that task and save themselves a ton of money. Plus it's not like it is done yearly, you are looking at it needing cleaned only every 50,000 miles or so.

Another maintenance plus is that you have longer intervals for some items compared to gasoline cars. One that quickly jumps to mind are oil changes. The recommended interval is 10,000 to 15,000 miles. So for the average driver you only have to change your oil once a year!!! And depending on how you go about doing that (yourself or at jiffylube) you could save as much as $100 a year just in oil changes.

DickRasmussen wrote:

I didn't pay much attention since I HATE the sound and smell of diesel. :wink:

And that is part of the problem with the Diesel reputation. People who remember the old GM/ Mercedes/ VW/ Volvo of the 80's only remember the noisy, smelly, black smoke belching beasts of the time. Alot has changed in the past 30 years. The new cars are very quiet, don't have that bad smell and are actually cleaner than alot of new gas powered cars. Go take a look at the new Mercedes BlueTech diesels. They are extremely nice cars and are actually cleaner than the PZEV cars from Honda, Ford, etc. The new CleanTDI from VW is said to be even cleaner than the BlueTech, but we won't know that for sure until they hit the shores this summer.

Richard Casto wrote:

I believe the European diesel Accord (4 cyl) will show up next year as an Acura. Then in 2010, I think Honda is going to add a v6 diesel to some cars. I am guessing the Odyssey and maybe the Honda/Acura SUVs.

The Accord/ Acura isn't set in stone yet. I'm still not sure what the hang up is on that car. Bosch brought a couple over last year on a tour to hopefully garner interest. Not real sure how that went for them.

Richard Casto wrote:

Still as Carl points out the jury is still out regarding world wide diesel supply and demand issues and if diesel is going to make sense from a $$ perspective.

As I said in my earlier post...For me, the cost of Diesel would have to be double the price of 87 octane for the two to wash out. I am currently getting no better than 24 mpg out of any of my 4 cars. Jetta TDIs are regularly getting 45 - 50 mpg. That is roughly double what I get now. Therefore at today's price of ~$3.54/ gallon of 87 octane, diesel would have to be $7.08/ gallon for the two to be equal.

Yes, Diesel prices are skyrocketing. But who really knows where any of it is going to top out. They are predicting that gasoline could reach as much as $5.00/ gallon!!!! That is just dumbfounding to me. But even at that price for gasoline, diesel still makes more sense if it is anything less than $10.00/ gallon.

/Diesel fanboi rant

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Dave Frankel wrote:

Family drives 44k miles / yr

Wow, that's a lot. I think the biggest opportunities for anyone is to re-evaluate their travel patterns. For our family, lots of these choices were made with time-savings in mind, but the fuel savings are becoming a big part of it.

- I'm working at home most of the time now. I used to go in whenever there was a meeting to attend. These days if it's not too important I try to call in.
- We just plain don't travel much. We're pouring a lot of money into our yard and home to make a nice destination. Pool, screened porch, and patio work are in our future. Maybe we'll just start taking vacations at home.
- I used to think nothing of driving an hour away to buy used stuff, tires, parts. Now I think twice. Also cut back on autocrossing and track (again more time-related but fuel is one thing keeping me from ramping back up).
- I do a LOT more online shopping for regular stuff. UPS is more efficient (energy wise) than me driving across town to find something. Light bulbs, car fluids, etc.
- I put a hitch on my Subaru for towing my utility trailer for mulch runs instead of using the Durango.
- Buy in bulk. We fill up the Durango on a Sams Club run and it reduces the number of regular grocery runs.

All of my cars are gas guzzlers but I don't mind at a family total of probably less than 20k miles per year. When I *do* go driving, I get every last penny of fun out of it. Full-throttle romps in the 540i keep my average at 18 MPG. But it's worth it.

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