THSCC Forums

The base NC weighs less than the base NB. Do you think that Mazda would add weight to the "sport package" NC?


Further rampant speculation
And why couldn't one put the 30 series DAs on the NC? They're free to be changed.

The weight is a nonissue as previously pointed out. Can one squeeze more tire on a 7 inch rim vs a 6 inch? Absolutely.

Now you're going crazy with the negatives by pointing out that they had the same things available to them???

ibid

You've been drinking too much of Rick Hendrick's Kool Aid. Can the Solstice cure cancer and restore eyesight to the blind too?

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Not really sure what your goals are. I assume you would like to compete at a higher level than local events. If that is the case, forget the both the Crossfire and Miata. Find yourself a co-drive in a proven car at the national level. See what it is like to compete there and the cost and time involved. If you like it, then decide on the car and class.

Because you did well at the Dixie Fair grounds does not mean squat beyond Winston-Salem. Likewise, investing $26,000 in Miata with the hopes that it can be competitive is pretty foolish. We are not even factoring in the additional go fast parts and tires. All that before you even leave the house on the 10 hour trek.

I would follow what Jim F did. He co-drove my MR2 (proven car for ES) for a year at the national and regional level. My assumption here, discovered he liked running at that level, saw the costs and time involved. Then he found the class and hopefully the right car to win a championship. For me, it helped offset the cost of competing at that level, I learned a lot on car set up and driving, plus heard the same go-kart racing stories 10 times

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

X100

Let someone else be the guinea pig to find out if the new Miata is competitive or not.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

Since someone brought it up, what is the base weight of the various models of the Miata? I wasn't aware the NC weighed less.

I googled around and didn't come up with much except what was on Wikipedia. And that is not what I would consider an authoritative source on this, but this is what they have:

NA - 2070
NB - 2200
NC - 2414

As a point of reference, I measured my 99 Showroom Stock car at 2244lbs with 4-5 gallons of gas. The only mods on it are a full roll cage, racing seat in place of drivers seat, hardtop, and straight pipe in place of the muffler. The airbags, radio and softop were removed. It probably has more than its fair share of weight adding bondo and maybe some extra layers of paint on it flanks though!

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Mark O'Dell
THSCC member since '96
www.grandamadventure.com

Wes, I know you and some others are so pro Mazda that you are turning a blind eye to the facts! I too am/was pro Mazda, and would have loved to buy another Miata or Mazda product rather than the Soli, but when all options were analized in the cold light it just didn't come to be.
Perhaps you could enlighten my Koolaid addled brain by telling me exactly what you see in the MX5-R that will make it 2-3 sec quicker on a 55 sec course than Disimo or Peterson's 99 Sport packages? If you can show me more than wishful thinking I too will return to kissing Mazda's ring, but right now I just don't see it.
Remember we bought a GXP not a ZOK, so I have no dog in the CS fight, I'm just taking off the rose colored Mazda glasses and pointing out the cold hard facts. My opinion is still the same: Mazda changed their knife to a sword but it's still a gun fight and it ain't enough! Ask Eric if he thinks he could have won CS at Topeka had he been able to put 17x7 wheels on his car.

My suggestion to Keith:
Andy Hollis has repetedly shown that the Miata can be/is highly competitive in STS2. If you really want to compete nationally IMHO it would make better financial sense to fully prep the Miata you already have than spend >30K to buy and prep this new model that has questionable potential to regain the podium, especially since the Solstice will have an additional year of sorting out under it's belt. The Kevin/Mike ZOK was bone stock last year with only a catback and an alignment. I know for a fact that won't be the case this Sept. they have two of them and have pulled out all the stops doing intense side by side prep comparisons. Buying the car is just the first step in making it nationally competitive, and EVERY class at nationals has the same quality of top flight drivers in it, you cannot BUY a win there. If you could, my wall would be covered in national trophies.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

Why would an NC need to be 2-3 seconds quicker on a 55 second course? I don't recall Dietz winning by 4-6 seconds at Nationals over the next Miata.

All that said, I think you discount the MS-R quite a bit. The key is the springs and the springs alone. If they are good, then the car should be very good.


--Donnie

I have never expected to buy my way into the trophies anywhere. My problem is that Hollis has shown how fast a 1.6 liter is. The 1.8 liter in STS2 trim weighs an extra 100 lbs and has an open diff compared to the 1.6's VLSD. Both of these really hurt the 1.8. I won't even count the Dixie NT as a representation of the car with how horridly I drove. Basically I am looking for a car that I can really enjoy autocrossing and also be competitive. As I stand right now the Miata is neither of those except competitive at the local level. When I drove the Crossfire last season it got me more excited because it had power and handled decent. My WRX had just as much power but handled for crap and my Miata handles great but has no power. Basically it comes down to I should have built the Crossfire to run this year but I talked myself out of it because of tire costs. Now I am about to say screw the tire cost because there is no point in autocrossing if you don't atleast enjoy driving the car you have.

As for the 2007 MX5. No one has been able to fit bigger than a 225 Hoosier or 245 Kuhmo on the 2006 model. Anything bigger hits the fenders in the rear. Now will the stiffer springs stop that and allow a 245 Hoosier to be run? I believe that is the biggest factor.

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2010 Honda Fit Sport
Couple of bicycles

I think that's what you are basically saying. Im right there with ya. That's one of the reasons why I sold/parted out my STS2 CRX.

Street tires SUCK!







as does PAX

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

OOPs sorry. I meant 1+ sec faster on a 55 sec course. You really believe different springs would have given Eric and Darrin's car another sec? I have not played with spring rates in Ax, but was under the impression that spring rates on a well designed suspension, unless badly balanced didn't have that a great effect on AX handling. That transitions and body roll could be controlled with shock valving and sweepers with sway bars? I was also under the impression that the spring rates on the 99 Sport were well chosen for competition purposes?
I was looking for more significant differences between the 07 SV-R and the 99 Sport. Didn't Mazda do away with the double A arm rear suspension on the NC?

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

http://www.mazdausa.com
Front: Double-wishbone
Rear: Multi-link setup from the RX-8

Regards,
--Ashraf

Car and Driver reports 2210 for the 1990 model, 2380 for the 1999 model and 2500 for the 2006 NC.

Honestly, I had misremembered the total weight which was actually the frame weight from the first page of this article, so I'll eat that crow. But for a Solstice fan to trumpet the weight thing? Shit, that car is porkier than Oprah at an all you can eat ham buffet.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

A few random thoughts.... FWIW, my 1999 Sport weighed in at 2175 pounds when it was Telehowski's, but that was a few years ago when it was wearing heavier Hoosier S03s. I'm guessing that it's probably around 2200 pounds now w/ an empty tank.

There is just no way to tell how a car will perform on paper! Everyone said the Spyder would crush the Miata a few years ago - wrong. Most folks thought the CS Solstice would not be competitive - wrong again. The list could go on and on. I don't have an opinion on the new Miata other than I could see it going either way. The 2006 Miatas that ran last year were no competition, but were wicked fast to 60 and 200 feet at the Pros, so they have good motors.

The stock shocks on the Solstice were good enough to have it Pax #1 at Nationals, so a good valve job on Koni singles for the Miata could be very good as well. There are many cars that do well on Koni singles, especially with a good valving. A lot will depend on the springs, sway bars, and ride height (which is supposedly lowered an inch - that could be a big deal). I did look at the selection of 17 inch tires for the car and they didn't appear to be as favorable as the 285 - 18 x 8 inch monsters on the Solstice. But, one thing the Solstice has proven is that having a really large contact patch can be a huge bonus that's hard to quantify. A 17 x 7 inch rim is a pretty decent size and will certainly put down a bigger contact patch than my 15 x 6s.

The ZOK Solstice is a pretty wicked package and will be hard to beat, but I'm glad Mazda has put this package together since it will be interesting to see how it does. One thing to keep in mind is that the Solstice will get faster with some shock valving and when people figure out that the 285 Hoosier is a faster tire than the 245 Kumhos. Just because the 1-2 drivers were on 245 Kumhos does not mean it's the fastest setup - that is just not statistically significant data.

FWIW, I think the Solstice is about 5 tenths faster than a 1999 on a 50 second course - it could be more or less depending on the course. I definitely don't think it's one (1) second. I drove OK at Nationals (paxed 39th of almost 1,200 so it must have been better than I thought), but certainly did not do my best driving and know about how much time I left on the course. Darrin was about 3 - 4 tenths back on Day #1 and likely got everything he could out of the car. Had I not boned up the finish on my first run I would have been about 5 tenths back from Dietz on Day #2 - that was a solid run. A 1999 can still win but it's going to take one helluva driver that's having a good day to make up the difference (i.e., Aro, Braun, or Telehowski).

Keith, more importantly, it's definitely an expensive gamble to buy an untested car early. It's a lot of money to pay to *hope* you will have a competitive car. Though, if it's the car to have or close to the ZOK, then you will have pulled off a coup. Seting up an untested car can be a rewarding or an incredibly frustrating & expensive proposition. It's a tough call to make since you may have a limited time window to decide on buying the car. It may be that if you get it and find out that it's not competitive you can sell it and not lose too much money since it's a limited edition. You can always run the Crossfire or bum co-drives in competitive cars so as to let others be the "guinea pigs" and take the financial risk. If you do get a new Miata I'll likely be running the 1999 for at least part of the season, so we could use each other as benchmarks to see where the new car stands and how it may do against the fastest Solsti. I don't envy you, it's a tough decision to make.

Good luck,
Eric

A little birdie tells me they haven't even tested this new package yet, and won't for another ten days! Ugh.

IMHO, if the springs are done right and you can get 245's on the car all the way around, it'll be a good car for the class. Stlil maybe not an overdog, but at least as good as a 1999. Like I said, it's all in the springs.

Chuck, I don't know why you would think springs aren't that important, honestly. Everything we do in stock class on many cars is a compromise to try to make up for bad springs as best we can. The better the springs are, the easier it is to get a well balanced suspension with fewer compromises. The cheaper the shocks can be and still be damned good, too. Having to run really huge front sway bars is just a band-aid that causes other issues in itself that you'd be better off without. Usually we don't get to see this in action very much as spring rates rarely change much for a particular model car, but rest assured that Street Prepared cars don't go to much higher spring rates *just* because they're also lowering the car.

Keith, if it's a budget thing, it's obviously a stretch to be developing a new car. If you like that car anyway and think it's a car you really want to own, though, then I don't think I'd worry too much about it. If you want something uber-nationally-competitive right now, well, there are plenty of obvoius choices available in *some* class.

They have a yellow GXP on display at the GM "Test Track" ride at Epcot. Saw it today, in fact. To each his own, but the Sky they had on display is still a much better looking car to me. Man, more truck manufacturers should jump on board with extended cab doors that open all the way around...that new Silverado doesn't do much for me, but those doors are hella-nice.


--Donnie

Like I said, I have no experience working with spring rates, was more a question of can they make the springs much stiffer than the 99 S was and still be drivable?
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but then we didn't buy the Soli for it's looks. The Sky includes as std equipment all the optional equipment on the Soli so it gets even heavier (not to mention significantly more expensive)

_________________
SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

Sure. If memory serves, those springs are still WELL under 200 pounds/inch, and lots of people daily drive stuff in that weight class with well OVER 300 pounds/inch. Shocks need to be valved better to control that much more spring, but it isn't bad as long as the shock is decent.

The Spyder springs were under 100 pounds/inch, IIRC.


--Donnie