USGP What a farce!!!

Phil Wehman · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:15 pm

Richard Casto wrote:

Any idea what people where chanting right before and during the podium stuff?

We left the stands after the victory lap, so didn't hear. I watched the local news tonite and the speedway president (or CEO?) Joie Chitwood was extremely unhappy and uncomplimentary of the F1 organization. He basically said that the IMS has no control when it comes to the F1 race, unlike NASCAR and IRL races there. He was very clear that he expected a world class event to be run far better than what happened today. He was visibly upset and frustrated at the fact that they had no control over the outcome of the events. In fact, he said that IMS was not informed of the tire issue until 10pm on Saturday nite!

Thats probably why they showed no support at the end.

Phil Wehman · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:34 pm

David Teague wrote:

Thats not entirelay true, Indy and the road couse were just resurface not too long ago, and IRL and Nascar did have a few cars who also had tire issues.
For thoose of you that blame Michelin, what would the FIA do if all the teams were on Michelin and refused to race on unsafe tires?

I may be wrong, but I thought that each of the series (F1, IRL and NASCAR) have had at least one event since the resurfacing, and the issues with the final turn have never changed.

If all the teams had been on Michelins it would have been an entirely different situation. They could have easily agreed on an outcome that would have been fair to everyone since they would have all been impacted equally. That was not the case here.

BTW, I listened to an interview with Schumacher tonite. He said that he had spoken to some of the drivers that pulled out. Apparantly they said that adding a chicane wouldn't have solved the problem - the tires were so bad. So, I now move even more blame to Michelin and less to the teams!

I look forward to seeing what happens the next few days!

It will be interesting to see what details emerge about the hours before the start. In any event, the guys at Michelin had better do something fast in the PR dept. because you would not believe how badly the crowd was after them (in about 10 different languages)!

Phil

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:59 pm

Phil Wehman wrote:

BTW, I listened to an interview with Schumacher tonite. He said that he had spoken to some of the drivers that pulled out. Apparantly they said that adding a chicane wouldn't have solved the problem - the tires were so bad. So, I now move even more blame to Michelin and less to the teams!

I think you are going to hear things said publicly by the Bridgestone and Michelin teams that support their side. Did Schumacher name names? I doubt it. But that doesn't mean that someone didn't have concerns. Who knows what the drivers REALLY think. But hey, people have tire problems during normal races. This year has proven that. So I don't think it really means much (as far as drivers public comments) unless someone really breaks ranks with their team (Michelin driver saying something other than the party line). It would be someone like Villeneuve who generally speaks his mind, but he is under such presure at Sauber to keep his job I doubt he will say much if anything.

With that being said, I personally think that Michelin probably doesn't have a real idea "exactly" what happened. I think that the tire was just on bleeding edge of what can be called "safe", they didn't find any obvious manufacturing defects and that their computer model and/or car data says "Turn 13 is putting the most stress on the tire" so changes to 13 was the easiest way to reduce the chance of tire failure.

Even if they did put in the chicane in 13, I think that Ralph lost his tire in that area, but the other Toyota driver (can't remember who - Zonta?) lost his in the infield. So, I don't think they can say exactly what caused it (i.e Turn 13 is a killer). Has there been any other mention of anyone else other than Toyota having problems with the tires? I am not saying that there wasn't a problem, but it seems odd, that there is two deflations with just a single team and the whole F1 world crashes in. Is it just that everyone is freaked and didn't want a replay of Ralph's accident from last year?

Phil Wehman wrote:

I look forward to seeing what happens the next few days!

Same here.

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

In the final round of the the US Open at Pinehurst #2 yesterday, rumors that the Titleist players would withdraw unless the pin position on the 13th green was changed proved to be unfounded.

I'm glad I was able to attend the USGP in 2003.

David Teague · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:21 am

Apparently on Saturday Micilen was able to reproduce the failer of the tires on thier own, the let the FIA that they had a problem with the tires and there were not safe to compete on, and they offered several options, the FIA turned them all down. This was not an issue where the tire was uncompetitive, this was a saftey issue, supposildy the tire could hold up for 10 laps before failing but know one knew for sure, and micelin was not even sure thier backup tire would be safe.
Since this was a Saftey issue it seems the FIA could have worked out a comprimise, but instead they held to thier guns and the fans lost... Good Job!

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

I blame Bernie. His callous attitude has helped push F1 to the dumpster. I'm not allowed to use the language that I'd like to to call him out. I agree with what the fans chanted (it rhymes with bull ship). He has an obligation to the *fans* as much as himself. Michelin airfreighted in the *right* tire, and then weren't allowed to run them.

I have a French-Canadian coworker that keeps cookooing "the rules are the rules" but he's also wearing his red Ferrari shirt today too. YMMV

Safety for both fans and drivers should be the concern of the governing body, in this case Bernie. He failed to do his job, and certainly put another nail in the coffin of F1 in the US, and perhaps for good. I look forward to seeing various manufacturers get together to have a competing organization that kicks F1's arse.

BTW, WTF was Schumie doing trying to punt his fingerquote teammate /fingerquote coming out of the pits wide?

David Teague · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:54 am

Personally I have never been really enjoyed wathcing F1, it seems like high speed parade laps at time with no passing, however I would like to see it catch on in the US for the good of all road racing, and maybe people would aspire to see a higher for, or tolerate another form of motorsports that was not nascar.
I also learned that the USGP is the second highest attended race, there are people who came to see this race from accross the contry, and for all F1 popularity, how can they not draw more than 100,000 fans when the contries they race in are closer than some stats in are in the US?

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:17 am

Wes Eargle wrote:

BTW, WTF was Schumie doing trying to punt his fingerquote teammate /fingerquote coming out of the pits wide?

I don't know if I should blame Michael on that one or congratulate him for being an aggressive racer! Frankly he did Rubens a favor. I don’t know if I would want that “win” on my record.

I keep waiting for Rubens to punch Schumacher on the podium one of these days, but he is just someone who wouldn't do something like that.

What would have been better was for both Ferrari to have taken each other out. Then we would have had a Minardi on the podium!! Or better yet, they take each other out and the rest of the cars retire due to mechanical problems and the race ends early due to lack of running cars.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

I'd love to see Tony George pulling a Nolan Ryan headlock to Robin Ventura on old Bernie.

Same goes with Rubens on The Chin. He's put up with way more (self-censored) than anybody should have. And a Sacagawea dollar sez that he won't be with Ferrari next year if Smug McChinerston stays.

Other thoughts:

Anybody else notice that one of the sectors was sponsored by Bridgestone?

Anybody else notice that most of the teams that fingerquote retired have discussed setting up a competitor to F1?

Anybody else notice Kumho, not Goodyear, wringing their hands in delight? (speculation, not tech)

Conclusion? Follow the money.

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:35 am

I think that it is a total disgrace what Michelin did. Indy is not a new venue. They had this failure last year (resulting in injury). Indy is not the fastest circuit (peak speed) on the F1 tour.

I understand that there is a lot going on with tires, downforce, lifespan and the like, but if in 1977 Tom Sneva could qualify at an AVERAGE speed over 200 mph, why can Michelin not build a tire that stays together at 205 mph almost 30 years later? I hope that this absolutely ruins Michelin's reputation, and chance that they will have OE contracts with M-B, BMW, Honda, Renault and Toyota.

I say we storm and take over the South Carolina Michelin proving grounds. Control of the black lake and test tracks will be fitting reward for us righting this wrong. :wink:

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Actually, Rich, the track *is* unproven. Before this year's Indy 500, they reground the surface to make additional grooves. So the surface was completely different than it was in years past. Especially in Turn 1 / Turn 13.

Firestone, the tire provider for Indy cars, had a chance to do tire testing there, as did Goodyear for the Brickyard. F1 rules limit the amount of tire testing, and don't allow for them to test at every racetrack but rather at "approved" tracks.

Remember who owns Firestone? Bridgestone.

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:52 am

Wes Eargle wrote:

Actually, Rich, the track *is* unproven. Before this year's Indy 500, they reground the surface to make additional grooves. So the surface was completely different than it was in years past. Especially in Turn 1 / Turn 13.

Firestone, the tire provider for Indy cars, had a chance to do tire testing there, as did Goodyear for the Brickyard. F1 rules limit the amount of tire testing, and don't allow for them to test at every racetrack but rather at "approved" tracks.

Remember who owns Firestone? Bridgestone.

The surface is different, yes, but the speeds and forces generated by the cars are not markedly so. And perhaps Bridgestone got an upper hand by having Firestone tires run there (although there is a lot of difference between an Indy car and tire and those for F1) but Michelin had this problem last year, with the old surface. Ralf Schumacher remembers, I am sure.

Michelin is the largest supplier of tires in F1. That they cannot provide a tire that is capable of lasting more than ten laps is disgraceful. This entire incident is their fault. Others may have responded poorly once things were in motion, but there is no doubt that Michelin started the problem. A lifetime ban from F1 and a ten year ban from all FIA sanctioned events would be suitable punishment, IMO. Not to mention a large financial penalty equal to what a team pays for defaulting on a season, multiplied by the number of teams they supply.

David Teague · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:55 am

You sure Michelin is soley at fault?

Quote:

# Indy Goodyear test pushed back over asphalt concerns: The new pavement at Indianapolis Motor Speedway - its first repave since 1995 - has presented unexpected problems. Firestone abruptly cancelled its Indy 500 tire test after one day when drivers ran into trouble last Tuesday, and track officials asked Goodyear to postpone this week's scheduled Brickyard 400 tire test while the problems are addressed. Indy officials say they plan to grind the asphalt to make it smoother. According to sources, the track was too bumpy at the entrance to the corners, creating excessive tire wear in the turns. Firestone is the sole tire supplier for the Indy 500; Goodyear is the sole supplier for the Brickyard 400. Dodge's #12-Ryan Newman, Chevy's #24-Jeff Gordon and Ford's #170Matt Kenseth are scheduled to run the Goodyear test, which has been rescheduled for the last week of April. However, that will be cutting it close for the NASCAR drivers, because Indy 500 rookie testing is also scheduled then.(Winston Salem Journal)(4-11-2005)

http://www.jayski.com/past/050411.htm

Quote »
MARTINSVILLE, Va. – At the request of Indianapolis Motor Speedway officials, Goodyear has postponed next week's NASCAR tire testing because of problems resulting from the track's recent repaving.
Earlier this week Firestone abruptly ended its tire test at the track for the Indy Racing League when unusual wear was discovered on several right-side tires.

http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/...3.htm
http://irl.racing-live.com/en/...shtml

Goodyear and Firestone were having problems

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

You change a track's grip and don't let a tire manufacturer test it and suddenly it's Michelin's fault?

Why not let them use the Spain GP tires that were overnighted in?

Bernie effed up so bad that Tony George didn't even appear on the podium, and he's an attention lady-of-the-night.

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:01 pm

David Teague wrote:

You sure Michelin is soley at fault?

Quote:

# Indy Goodyear test pushed back over asphalt concerns: The new pavement at Indianapolis Motor Speedway - its first repave since 1995 - has presented unexpected problems. Firestone abruptly cancelled its Indy 500 tire test after one day when drivers ran into trouble last Tuesday, and track officials asked Goodyear to postpone this week's scheduled Brickyard 400 tire test while the problems are addressed. Indy officials say they plan to grind the asphalt to make it smoother. According to sources, the track was too bumpy at the entrance to the corners, creating excessive tire wear in the turns. Firestone is the sole tire supplier for the Indy 500; Goodyear is the sole supplier for the Brickyard 400. Dodge's #12-Ryan Newman, Chevy's #24-Jeff Gordon and Ford's #170Matt Kenseth are scheduled to run the Goodyear test, which has been rescheduled for the last week of April. However, that will be cutting it close for the NASCAR drivers, because Indy 500 rookie testing is also scheduled then.(Winston Salem Journal)(4-11-2005)

http://www.jayski.com/past/050411.htm

Quote »
MARTINSVILLE, Va. – At the request of Indianapolis Motor Speedway officials, Goodyear has postponed next week's NASCAR tire testing because of problems resulting from the track's recent repaving.
Earlier this week Firestone abruptly ended its tire test at the track for the Indy Racing League when unusual wear was discovered on several right-side tires.

http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/...3.htm
http://irl.racing-live.com/en/...shtml

Goodyear and Firestone were having problems

Now more so than ever. Those reports are from April. It is now two months later. Did Michelin take heed of these problems that other companies were having? Did they raise a concern with the FIA? Not that has been reported. I think Michelin completely and totally failed.

THSCC Forums

USGP What a farce!!!

Who is online