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Are these replacements for an OEM rear bar? If not they may not have the same lever arms and mounting points. Do you have enough info to approximate the bar rates and/or the wheel rates? IF the two bars are identical other than diameter and color, then it really depends on the stuff you know at least as well as I do. My guess is that if the Helwig bar is actually configured the same as the Addco, then either one will be too soft to be worth the trouble or the other will be much to stiff and will hurt daily driving ride on one wheel bumps and may even make the truck oversteer in real world (i.e. bumpy) driving.

Edit to add: Are both bars solid?

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

The swaybar won't affect ride quality when travelling in a straight line. It'll just move along with the rear axle.

As far as I know, both bars are solid. There is no OEM bar (that was an option a year later).

Scott

Unless there is a bump, pothole, etc that only "impacts" one wheel . . . a common occurance in my experience with our van and numerous solid axle cars.

In regard to stiffness from the two different bars, assuming all else is equal: The Addco bar will make a minor, you will hardly know it is there improvement in sway/lean and neglible change in ride feel. The Helwig bar is probably stiff enough to be "useful" without being too instrusive on handling or ride. FYI the stock rear bar in our Mustang's are about 23 mm (.9 inch) so .75 inch on the truck would be pretty soft unless the arms are very soft. We have a Helwig rear bar in our van but I don't recall the size other than THICK . . . I'll measure it in warmer weather if you need but keep in mind the van is a heavy one ton camper van

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

You can't compare swaybar size from one car to another. They are ost likely different designs, may use different mouting pts, or stlyes, etc.

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91 Jetta GLI STS/DSP 111
85 Porsche 944 ASP 11
http://www.blackforestindustries.com

[quote="Adam Ligon]
You can't compare swaybar size from one car to another. They are ost likely different designs, may use different mouting pts, or stlyes, etc.[/quote]

Adam,

True . . . but . . . given that no one so far has any specific experience with Tundra rear bars, it seemed that info about the size of rear bars on a solid axle car might provide some ball park info to Scott who knows enough, I assume, about bar variables to put this info in context.

By the way Scott, you might take a look at the newer model Tundra that offers a rear bar option and determine the dimensions and mounting system. Then it would give you a basis for comparison with the two aftermarket options . . . been there done that with Datsun Z's in the past.

Dick

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

I'll second that. The Excursion didn't come with a rear bar from the factory. Installing a swaybar on a vehicle not originally so equipped proved to be a pretty hateful experience.

For my part the "ride quality" of my X got better, not worse. It goes over bumps pretty much the same, and when you want to turn the beast, it actually turns sometime approaching "now" rather than thinking about it a bit.

With the help of Shultz and the Italian Stallion James Vervaece, I got both the new Bilsteins and the Radius Rods installed on my Excusion last weekend. The true test will come when I drive to Canada for T-Giving weekend (leaving today), but inital results are GREAT. I still have a little too much rear body roll, but it's about 400% better than it was. Also, the rear body roll doesn't cause the rear end to steer the vehicle anymore. The Ex now handles imperfections in the road just like it should, without having to counter steer.

The $350 for the Radius Rods and $250 in Bilsteins was money well spent, methinks. After Christmas I'll probably order up a Hellwig rear sway bar just to make it as good as possible (since I spend so much time driving to and from race tracks in the thing).

-Matt

Matt - give me a call when you get back in town. You can drive my X with the sway bar, but without the radius arm, and I'll drive yours with the radius arm but no sway bar, so we have a baseline before deciding whether to install both. Unless anyone has both installed to compare to...???

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Marvin McBride
Spec Miata #62

I've got my swaybars (I got the Helwig front, too), but won't install them until the radius rods get here, which won't be until January sometime as the dude isn't building any more until then.

And stop mentioning the damned Bilsteins, already! You're just rubbing salt in my wound!


--Donnie

Hmmmm....

I just purchased a used 17' dual axle trailer....?12,500?lbs GTW.

It was used for a few years around a small farm....towed a farm tractor and attachments to the neighbors house and the shop....that is it...

The thing must weigh 2 tons...It is professionally made with what appears to be engineering C sections....they are radiused corner extruded steel C beams...6x2 inch sections...the deck is rough sawn oak planks....It has huge swing up triangulated ramps. The wheels are 8 lug 16". It has 4 12"drum electric brakes.

I towed it home with my 1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pickup....It is lifted 4" and uses blocks over the rear axle with stock HD 9 leaf springs with no sway bar or traction bars....
I would not consider this to be a "good" set up for towing.....but it pulls the trailer like it is not even there....no bounce no jounce...no pulling off camber and in fact the whole rig has much better braking than the truck alone.
I loaded the Z car and towed it out on 40...I could barely tell I had added the car...

Ok....I tried to tow just the trailer with my 1994 fj-80 Land Cruiser....this truck has a hell of a live axle set up......traction, panhard, swaybars galore....It has some wear on bushings and the springs are old...but the shocks are recently renewed.......anyway......it bounced and jounced and fought the trailer the whole way.....it wobbled and hunted around on 40 so bad I got off at the first exit......

I would like to know what in the hell is wrong with my LC....The chevy truck is a P.O.S. I would hate to have to drive that bucket any distance.

I would guess that there is simply no replacement for spring weight capacity....no matter how much complication you add...stiff rides make good tow vehicles.

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Paint don't make it go any faster.

John,

A couple of ideas:

1) Longer wheelbase on the pickup vs. maybe too short on the LC.
2) LC is bottoming in the rear and/or levering a lot of weight off the front from the tongue weight which truck doesn't notice. Truck, with lift block has so much bump travel in rear there is no way it could bottom from tongue weight.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

number 2 is very likely the problem.....
the LC drops 2 1/2 inches in the rear and rises 2 inches in the front with the trailer alone....It looks like it is loaded with everything it can handle...I would guess the tounge weight is around 300lbs....unloaded....I can't budge it....but it is still easy to jack.

The truck simply won't squat at all without 500+lbs on the hitch....the front end never rises even with a half cubic yard of crush and run in the bed.

I split the belts in 2 rear tires with 3500 lbs of gravel...and the truck did not "look" squashed...on my last haul the loader operator dumped it way too fast...and did the tire damage.

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Paint don't make it go any faster.

Marvin:

This topic is is a never ending thread on the Ford Truck Enthusist Forum.
The root cause is roll steer as mentioned.

The consus on the FTE Forum, verified by Karl Shultz, is the big sway
bar and Bieldsteins solved the handling problem. I priced the stock rear sway bar in my truck (30mm) and its was $50 from fordparts.com
but then you got to order all the mouting brackets a la carte so you
may be better off just geting the kit from Heillwig plug & play.

I woud do that first before looking into radious rods.

I have reservations about the radius rod the guy in VA is making
and selling on the forum. He is using a solid bar with a bushing
at the end. IMHO a spring loaded link strut for a dirt track car from AFCO or a floater axle bracket with a solid bar is what is needed.

It looks to me the cheep radius bar will bind the rear springs.
Agreeded that will solve the roll steer problem and make it corner flat
(and I quote "like its on rails").
These guys on the FTE Forum rave about it but from what
I see these guys are not towing race rigs with them and are
overly impressed with the elimination of body roll.

One comment caught my attention is the one guy who said he got the back end drifing on freeway off ramps. I would not be suprized. If you bind up the rear suspension and spike the roll rate to infinity but when towing with a constant load I would be afraid of braking someting-Mabey those brackets and hangers are up to the job but someting got to give?

There is a properly designed rear radious rod for the F250 chasis but it cost $700. You can get it at Autosport gallery or any of the truck speed shops. I think that is overkill for towing but it is done right. What radious
rods are designed to do is fix axle tramp.

What shocks and sway bar do not fix is the tendency of these axles to hop and tramp but that is a seperate issue and can be cheeply fixed with the right foot. I only notice this when it rains or there is gravel on the road combined with the massive abount of torque at 1000-1200 rpm put
out by the turbo desiel. ( I'm really looking forward to driving this
thing in the snow )

As Matt ordered one I am anxious to hear his report about it.

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Mark Vitacco
THSCC TT Chairman
mvitacco@bellsouth.net

Sorry to revisit this so late, but I've done some upgrades to my Excursion. Against Mark's advice above, I got the radius rods from the guy in VA. Installed along with the Hellwig front and rear swaybars. I can tell a *huge* difference just driving with no trailer. I have far less steering wander. I've only towed the enclosed trailer once for a short distance, but it was way better than before. The thing tracks straight now.

I also had the Banks Six Gun kit put on. Bigger intercooler, huge exhaust, new program. All I can say about that is *wow*. I can outrun most rice boys now off the line. I haven't even tried it in position six yet, just four. In four I'm getting about one mile per gallon better mileage on the highway, too. Will be interesting to see what I get towing. I expect one more MPG, but hope for two. We'll see. Either way, she's a lot more fun.

As for the comment about "drifting" the thing...let's just say that guy was either being stupid, crazy, or both. The thing is not *that* stiff in the rear with those rods. But it sure does track much better, and the ride quality with something back there seems better, too. So far, I'm very happy. I still wish I could get some damned Bilsteins, though!

My favorite mod I've made has still got to be the backup camera. I put a Kenwood video head unit in and had a backup camera put in the rear bumper. It's right over the trailer ball. And it switches to that camera automatically when you put the truck in reverse. So now hooking up to a trailer by myself is a *breeze* (which is good, because with those slack codrivers I have I end up doing *everything* by myself....*cough*). No more getting out, getting back in and moving four inches when you meant to move two, etc. First time, every time.


--Donnie