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 Post subject: Warranty Issues from Auto-X?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:54 am 
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I saw this article and thought it was appropriate for this forum...It reminded me of the "Overzealous Insurance Companies" thread a while back.

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02612566
Quote:
MICHAEL MILLER DIDN’T know it, but the drivetrain warranty was already void on his son’s new Mitsubishi Evolution before he even took the car in for service to his local Salt Lake City dealership.

Unbeknownst to Miller, Mitsubishi placed a lifetime warranty restriction on the engine, clutch and transmission in Miller’s Evo because the company discovered the car had been entered in a Sports Car Club of America autocross event a month earlier.

Miller said that about two weeks after entering the Evo in the SCCA event he heard bad noises emanating from the engine bay and took the car in for service. “The dealer performed a vehicle service inquiry and I was told there was a restriction placed on my file,” Miller says.

Bottom line: After entering the car in one SCCA event, Miller was left with a $7,000 bill for repairing two failed connecting rods and a blown turbocharger.

“Problems related to racing or modifications are not covered under warranty,” says Mitsubishi spokeswoman Janis Little. “Autocrossing, or timed competition, is classified under the warranty terms as racing. It’s difficult for us to know if you’re out there racing, but if there is evidence of racing damage, we’re going to look into it and you may have warranty restrictions placed on certain parts of the vehicle.”

Most owners recognize that part of the cost of going racing means footing the repair bill when something goes awry. Manufacturer warranties and owner manuals typically specify that harsh use, abuse, non-factory modifications and racing can void all or part of a vehicle’s warranty intended to cover defects in materials or workmanship. Miller’s case, however, raises questions about how the company discovered his autocross involvement.

The buzz in online communities suggests Mitsubishi is cross matching names from its owner database with SCCA autocross results. Those who turn up on both lists are notified that their vehicle warranties are void, the online chatter claims. Miller says Mitsubishi wasn’t clear on how it learned of his autocrossing.

Mitsubishi adamantly denies that it uses automated web search systems to look for Evolutions involved in race events. “We don’t have people out there searching websites for names,” says Little.

No matter how racing involvement comes to the attention of an automaker, companies steadfastly stand by their right to limit warranty coverage—even if the cars they sell are clearly built for speed and marketed with flashy ads and brochures that promote enthusiastic driving. Most automakers say the same thing: Racing, track use, competition and other abuses aren’t covered.

“When it hits the track, all bets are off,” says Bob Carlson, Porsche Cars of North America spokesman.

For instance, even though Subaru pops for a one-year SCCA membership for every interested WRX buyer, and in its marketing materials appears to encourage owners to enter their cars in autocross events, the company says autocrossing is racing and racing can void warranty coverage. The WRX/SCCA application form says the SCCA “looks forward to helping you fully experience the benefits of owning this car.” But the form also includes a disclaimer that Subaru’s warranty excludes “damage or failure resulting from participation in competition or racing events.”

“If the damage looks to be racing related, you’re not going to be covered,” says Subaru spokeswoman Larkin Hill. “We don’t want to punish the person who goes out once in a while and autocrosses—and that shouldn’t cause any problems with the car anyway. However, autocross is considered competition and the warranty does not cover abusive driving or competition. If you’re out there racing every weekend, you can’t expect us to fund it.”

You’ll hear the same story at DaimlerChrysler Street and Racing Technology, where they make the Dodge SRT-4, the Viper-powered Ram SRT-10 and the supercharged Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6. “Technically, racing damage is not covered under warranty,” says SRT spokesman Dan Bodene. “If a guy autocrosses, submits a problem for warranty and the dealer suspects it is racing related, he’s going to huddle with our technicians to find out. If it is, our dealers are not obligated to cover it under warranty.”

Chevrolet lures young buyers with the performance promise of its 2005 supercharged Cobalt SS, but the owner’s manual clearly states the warranty does not cover alterations and misuse.

“Under the misuse heading, such things like running over curbs, improper loading and competition or racing are spelled out specifically,” says Chevy spokesman Mike Stoller. “If there’s a car coming into the dealer that has been racing and that results in damage, and it’s something that is probable or obvious, that would not be something we would be compelled to cover.”

Internal investigations aren’t limited to auto-crossing, but cover any activity deemed outside normal use, such as track days and plain old aggressive driving.

“If a guy’s constantly lighting up the tires on the street, that’s not normal wear and tear,” says Chrysler’s Bodene.

Adds Mitsubishi’s Little: “You’re not going to get black-flagged just for entering an auto-cross, but if something happens we want people to be reasonable and responsible for their own actions. If you go once in a while, just like if you drive hard on the street, who’s going to really know? But if you’re coming in two or three times to replace a blown clutch, we know you’re probably testing your car’s 0-to-60 time.”

But what about all those manufacturer- and dealer-sponsored “racing” events—track days, club meets and performance driving programs that seem to encourage owners to drive competitively?

The big difference, companies note, is that manufacturer-sponsored driving programs such as Mazda’s Rev It Up or the Porsche Driving Experience provide cars and instruction, and no owner vehicles are permitted.

One rare exception is track day events organized, sponsored and sanctioned by the national Ford SVT Owners’ Association and local Ford/SVT dealers. Owners bring their cars, and the association and participating dealers agree to cover any mechanical failures brought on by normal track use.

“Owners can participate in the instructional days without automatically voiding their warranties,” says Ford Performance Vehicles spokesman Alan Hall. “Obviously if they abuse it [the car] on the track, or there’s a part that breaks due to aggressive driving, that will not be covered under warranty. But your warranty will not be voided across the board by just participating in that event. We don’t automatically void a warranty unless above-normal abuse is shown on a vehicle.”


A while back there was a NC Evo owner who had a warranty claim denied when his 5th gear synchros started failing. Supposedly, the regional service manager had pics of his car at the drag strip (I think it was at Fayetteville.) They ended up fixing the tranny because the guy argued that there is no way he even got into 5th gear on a 1/4 mile track, but they told him that they would be denying any future warranty claims that could be caused by racing. That is some sketchy stuff, and I hope their sales are affected by their attitude in the long run.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:06 pm 
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Well I think the wink wink nudge nudge thing should stop. While the terms of virtually every warranty state that all racing voids the warranty the manufacturer reps are clearly out there stating that "oh the occasional autocrosser won't be affected by this". They are tacitly encouraging people to lie if they go to the dealer with a warranty claim that could be theoretically caused by racing. This is just plain wrong and makes people be at the mercy of their particular service writer and warranty rep.

I am realistic enough to know that these warranty terms will probably never change but it would sure be nice if those who participate in arguably the least damaging motorsport could be certain that their warranty would be safe.

--Kevin H.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:08 pm 
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GRM forums had a similar thread up recently.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:23 pm 
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To me, this is what you get when you deal with a company in financial ruins. Would Subaru do such a thing? How about Mini? How about Ford? I think any company that is promoting 'racing', would be stupid to do so. I think the problem is that most companies don't understand autocross, except for Subaru and Mini... - AB

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:23 pm 
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Two failed connecting rods and a blown turbo...after an Auto-X? Man that Evo sounds like one over-priced, quality-built machine. :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:24 pm 
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Two failed connecting rods and a blown turbo...after an Auto-X? Man that Evo sounds like one over-priced, quality-built machine. :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:33 pm 
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You're just jealous

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Gee, I wonder if the failure was due to "mechanical over rev"? Having never owned a Mitsu (but I have owned a Studebaker, a Lotus and four or five Fords), it is hard to imagine a modern new car which has been properly maintained having this kind of failure without a serious over rev. Assuming a rev limiter, it would require a down shift (intended or accidental) at too high a speed for the new gear to over rev the engine.

The autocross excuse may be Mitsu simply not wanting to convince Daddy and Sonny that Sonny screwed up.

Somehow I suspect there is more to this story and Mitsu just isn't in the financial condition to simply pay up to maintain a customer base. The way things are going the brand may go away (its too hard to spell anyway) and some of the engineering and production capacity sold off to other companies who won't be utilizing the well earned "performance image" to overcome the, apparently, well earned "crappy reliability" image. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:03 pm 
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Even if the kid damaged a couple of rods by over-revving...I'm still not getting how anything in an auto-x could have damaged the turbo. It's not like you can over-rev the turbo.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:07 pm 
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I think the Evo vs STI battle has just come to a conclusion.

I know which one I would buy.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:13 pm 
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I vote that we kidnap any Mitsubishi spies that we find at our Auto-X's and ransom them for STi's. 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:32 pm 
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You're just jealous

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Andy Greene wrote:
Even if the kid damaged a couple of rods by over-revving...I'm still not getting how anything in an auto-x could have damaged the turbo. It's not like you can over-rev the turbo.


My guess: Over rev engine such that rods "fail". The rods are probably the strongest moving parts in an engine so when they "fail" there will be LOTS of other failed parts! :( High likelihood of various bits of metal getting into exhaust and/or oil . . . and, therefore, into turbo. In any case, I would assume the failed turbo was a side effect of the failed rods or whatever else happened that hurt the rods. Consider that Daddy's report just gave the summary of what happened rather than a detailed cause and effect. Assuming Daddy is telling the story straight as far as his knowledge of engines . . . which may be minimal.

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 Post subject: Re: Warranty Issues from Auto-X?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:48 pm 
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Why are you guys so pleased with Subaru? Sounds like they have the same attitude as Mitsu...


Quote:



For instance, even though Subaru pops for a one-year SCCA membership for every interested WRX buyer, and in its marketing materials appears to encourage owners to enter their cars in autocross events, the company says autocrossing is racing and racing can void warranty coverage. The WRX/SCCA application form says the SCCA “looks forward to helping you fully experience the benefits of owning this car.” But the form also includes a disclaimer that Subaru’s warranty excludes “damage or failure resulting from participation in competition or racing events.”

“If the damage looks to be racing related, you’re not going to be covered,” says Subaru spokeswoman Larkin Hill. “We don’t want to punish the person who goes out once in a while and autocrosses—and that shouldn’t cause any problems with the car anyway. However, autocross is considered competition and the warranty does not cover abusive driving or competition. If you’re out there racing every weekend, you can’t expect us to fund it.”


-vs-

Quote:
Adds Mitsubishi’s Little: “You’re not going to get black-flagged just for entering an auto-cross, but if something happens we want people to be reasonable and responsible for their own actions. If you go once in a while, just like if you drive hard on the street, who’s going to really know? But if you’re coming in two or three times to replace a blown clutch, we know you’re probably testing your car’s 0-to-60 time.”


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:46 am 
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Well, for one, Subaru told me I had a one year "no questions asked" repair warranty. Of course I still have the factory warranty. Maybe it's just Performance Subaru offering that but they're standing behind the STi I bought. Or so it seems.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:11 am 
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As stated in the post/article, this sort of thing is totally dependent on the service writer/technician.

I had the very same issues with Performance Chevy in Chapel Hill when I had the vette. I took it in with noise in the front end, and play in the wheel bearings. They diagnosed it as "tire noise" and charged me $35 to "diagnose" the problem, since I wasn't using the factory Goodyear Runflats at the time.

Took the exact same car to another chevy dealer in Wake Forest not two days later, and the technician replaced both front wheel bearings. Problem solved. No questions asked.

Moral of the story: If you're going to buy a car with a factory warranty, and you're going to race/autox/track it, develop a relationship with your service writer/technician/mechanic. If you can't find good service people, find another dealership.

-Matt


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:56 pm 
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Or, you could just hit a tree to make the noise go away.....No wait, that was mean......

Ron


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