THSCC Forums

Doesn't look good if this actually comes to fruition: http://jalopnik.com/is-the-epa-trying-t ... 1758013542

And now I'd like to turn the subject to an old and familiar enemy of ours: the automobile.

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Art McDonald
Premier Amateur #518
2008 Dishman Cup
Pivot Cone Snob

Rodney is a waxer (but in a good way)

Mentioned in the last paragraph of the update is the scariest part.

"The EPA could issue a final rule by July, or possibly longer. After that, it becomes law—no Congressional approval required."

That's significant power for unelected individuals. What other un-enforced provisions are lurking in the Clean Air Act, or any other Acts for that matter, just waiting to be enforced at the discretion or whim of bureaucrats. Geez I sound like an old man We need a cane shaking smiley option.

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92 Miata 1.9L naturally aspirated. SSM 21

Jordan; What exactly is bad about sounding like an old man? Some of us geezers take offense at this notion

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'66 CORVAIR MID-ENGINE V-8
'88 FIERO GT

Lol, I meant no offense to old men or geezers. I hope to be able to run in Old Farts with funding from my Social Security some day, it's just that it will be a few decades before I am eligible.

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92 Miata 1.9L naturally aspirated. SSM 21

I've posted this in a few other places, but the short of it is that this is what happens when people straight up ignore the FOR HIGHWAY USE ONLY stickers, so the EPA is going after the part manufacturers themselves. SEMA obviously has a lot at stake, so they're putting forth their best effort to scare the hell out of as many people as possible. The clause about preventing conversions of motor vehicles into competition vehicles is definitely the scary part of the provision, and it is quite buried.

Luckily I haven't seen it here, but it bears mentioning that the appropriate response is to call up your rep, ask for clarification, and voice your concern. Actually engaging with your government does a lot more than blowing hard on social media about """government tyranny""" and how the EPA never did nuthin' for ya.

This doesn't exist in any way, shape, form or interpretation of the words the EPA has released. The absolute worst case is that it's illegal to remove the emissions equipment on any normal retail purchased car.

Or modifying the engine beyond manufacturer specifications? Is every production/normal retail purchased car with such modifications used exclusively for off road and racing purposes illegal?

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92 Miata 1.9L naturally aspirated. SSM 21

I figured this would happen, really wondered why it has taken so long for the green police to start chasing us. Wouldn't be surprised if we don't have to switch to racing propane or electric cars.

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2002 MCS, 2003 MCS Track Rat, 2003 Generic White Yukon, 2003 BMWk1200rs, 1973 CB350F, 02 996. 08 Cayenne Turbo
http://www.clinehallagency.com

Let's do some bumper stickers: "They can have my race car when they pull it from my cold dead fingers"

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2002 MCS, 2003 MCS Track Rat, 2003 Generic White Yukon, 2003 BMWk1200rs, 1973 CB350F, 02 996. 08 Cayenne Turbo
http://www.clinehallagency.com

This really isn't about us. Nobody actually cares about street cars that are used on the track. For many years, the aftermarket performance industry has sold parts that are illegal to use on the street because they had a loophole; they just had to put a disclaimer that the product "is never to be used on a vehicle used on a public street", because the product could be used on a street car at the track. In almost all cases, they are used on the street. This is just an attempt at closing the loophole because it has been universally abused. There is a massive industry that makes products that are almost always used for illegal activities. That industry is now trying to get the track community to pull their asses out of the sling that they have fashioned for themselves by flaunting the law.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

Without that loophole, that industry would wither away. The ability to build a reliable cheap track car would likely wither away with it.

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In need of car.

I don't see why. The segment of the industry that would be affected would be the part that makes more power. I wouldn't be able to turbocharge my Civic so it had 400+ HP, but I was an idiot for doing that. It cost a lot of money, reduced my reliability, and made me a worse driver. I don't think that having to use a stock engine would kill amateur motorsports. It would probably improve it.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

Without being able to make more power you would reduce the number of people modifying cars. Which would reduce the size of the overall aftermarket industry. Which would reduce the number of shops developing and making parts.

Not to mention that watching a 150hp 240sx doesn't get a kid excited about motorsports. A turbocharged 300hp version does. There are many more people who modify their cars with no intentions of taking them on track then people who actually track them. Removing those people will have a negative impact on the industry.

What would happen to lemons if you took away all of the teams that are out there with Frankenstein vehicles? Many of those teams have no intentions of winning, but their entry fees enable you to do what you do.

Obviously this is my opinion as I don't have a way to play out this in reality, but I do think you are undermining the importance of the aftermarket having a large customer base, including those people that don't follow your path.

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In need of car.

But really, the stuff that's being affected is stuff that's used almost exclusively illegally on street cars. It's true that my track car does benefit from the expanded overall aftermarket performance industry, but track cars are a very tiny percentage of the aftermarket performance market. If I need to stop taking advantage of a massive illegal market in order to track my car, then I'll do that.

My big problem with this issue is that the whistle-blower is SEMA, an industry organization for the $36,000,000,000 automotive aftermarket business that has always known that their companies products are primarily used illegally on public streets, and does everything that they can to make sure that they can expand their illegal business. They are appealing to me and other racers to defend their very profitable business because while we are a tiny portion of it, we are the only ones that are actually doing something legally defensible with the products that will be affected by the change. They can't really make an appeal for the vast majority of users that will be affected by the EPA's change because they know very well that almost all of the affected products are primarily used illegally. So when a $36,000,000,000 industry appeals to me to get fired up about a bunch of street ricers not being able to turbocharge their 240's, I'm going to say that I'd rather have less street ricers turbocharging their 240's, even if it makes my aftermarket parts cost more.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."