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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:25 pm 
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JamesShort wrote:
Richard, I'm not caving: would.

That's fine. We can disagree. I might be wrong. I just wish I was successfully able to get people to at least publicly consider that they might be wrong. :(

Richard

Edit... I will also say that "ignore" is a strong word. Nobody should be ignored. However our action (Large, small, non-existent) may not satisfy them.

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:31 pm 
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I'm always wrong. .has nothing to do with the conversation however

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:48 pm 
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The decision to delete postings of trophy girl pictures from the facebook page has made me feel very excluded.

The way this was handled has also clarified a lot of things for me. I've been hearing the whole "Tarheel is unfriendly" thing since I got back into autocross 3 years ago and I've pretty much been in denial about it, while never really feeling welcome at the clubs events. I can now see why people say that. It's not pictures of trophy girls on facebook that keep people from coming to events, it's the overbearing attitude of some of the leadership.

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:58 pm 
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Hi -- this is Belinda, logged in as Ram since I don't have an account. :)

A few points to make:
1) THANK YOU for starting this thread here. The photos were controversial enough that it started multiple conversations (some last week that were also removed, that I think most people here missed)... and the attitude between people in those conversations did not reflect well on the club in a public forum -- regardless of whether you thought the pictures did or not. I think pulling the photos & the conversation was a good call, based on how mean people were being about it.

2) I'm one of the offended parties. The reasons behind this are complex, and far reaching, and don't necessarily have 100% to do with the photos that were posted. Also contributing are gender-normative stereotypes & roles, female objectification in basically every type of media ever, female stereotypes about the maths & sciences, and probably most personally -- a continuous struggle to feel good enough in my day-to-day life. I've struggled with weight, confidence, and self esteem issues, and am forced to make a daily personal choice that I am not defined by what I look like, but by who I am.

The photos represent a lot of ideals that I, and clearly others here, strongly disagree with. I'm imagining that the confederate flag controversy was similar -- it represented different things to different people. For african americans I'm betting it represented slavery, inequality, and was a slap in the face to ideals they held dear. For it's supporters -- I bet that very few would say "yep, I support slavery" -- they probably thought it represented state's rights, a pride in the south (pecan pie, sweet potatoes, and carolina sunshine).

Can you take a moment to realize that these trophy women might mean something different to the people who are offended?
I'm imagining that for those who are not offended the trophy women represent: the good ol' days at the club, fun (because sexy women are fun), and winning at autox!
For some of those who are offended, the trophy women represent: a daily fight to feel "good enough," a misogynistic world view where (straight) men win trophies and women deliver those trophies, and an objectification of women that in some small towns has led to rape or violence against women.

I, personally, have quit watching television as a general rule, and am trying to take an active effort to only input sources into my life that DON'T objectify women. This has helped me gain more confidence at work (ugh computer science, 10% women... it's a whole 'nother story), and helped me to feel more confident about who I am -- not what I look like. I'm subscribed to the autocross page because I like seeing what everyone's up to, and I like the pictures of rallycross & autocross.

Is your representation of fun more important than the negative representations for others? Yes, you're right. We can't please everyone, but the downside to NOT posting pictures of objectified women in bikinis is REALLY small, for the huge return of avoiding representing a family club with these photos. If you want to see that sort of content, you can open a separate group (Autox babes, THSCC ppl who like Autox babes) or post the content on your own personal page.

3) I can appreciate that it's difficult to recognize that being born a white, straight, male is like being given an "easy button," but statistically it is. That doesn't mean you didn't work your ass off to get where you are, but it does mean that some things (statistically) might have been a bit harder if you were born to a different category -- be that category black, female, or god-forbid... Not American. Being born a white american (yes, even female white american), puts me in one of the easiest possible positions I could've been born on in this earth. Even though I'm a first-generation college student, I was still able to work relatively little (compared to my worldwide peers), and achieve a college degree, a good job, the ability to travel, and the extra money to autocross. We're all very fortunate to be here, so let's show a little open-mindedness to those for whom it might be *statistically* harder.

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:01 pm 
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Richard Casto wrote:
That's fine. We can disagree. I might be wrong. I just wish I was successfully able to get people to at least publicly consider that they might be wrong. :(

Richard

Edit... I will also say that "ignore" is a strong word. Nobody should be ignored. However our action (Large, small, non-existent) may not satisfy them.


You are wrong. You keep on mentioning consensus and a majority and whatnot; however, individual members have been on the receiving end of harassment. You might not think it's a big deal, but then again, you don't have to deal with the harassment.


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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:05 pm 
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Where is my pistol............................ I'm feeling like swallowing the barrel about now............. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:06 pm 
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Andrew Jonell wrote:
Richard Casto wrote:
That's fine. We can disagree. I might be wrong. I just wish I was successfully able to get people to at least publicly consider that they might be wrong. :(

Richard

Edit... I will also say that "ignore" is a strong word. Nobody should be ignored. However our action (Large, small, non-existent) may not satisfy them.


You are wrong. You keep on mentioning consensus and a majority and whatnot; however, individual members have been on the receiving end of harassment. You might not think it's a big deal, but then again, you don't have to deal with the harassment.


Did some one say event magnet?????

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:11 pm 
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steve remchak wrote:
Did some one say event magnet?????


And all mentions of it have been erased at your request. You of all people should realize how accommodating the club can be, you fucking moron.


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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:15 pm 
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Andrew Jonell wrote:
steve remchak wrote:
Did some one say event magnet?????


And all mentions of it have been erased at your request. You of all people should realize how accommodating the club can be, you fucking moron.



And you should remember the blowback I received, especially for using such language. You can't have it both ways, unless of course you are a bleeding heart crusader.

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:15 pm 
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Andrew Jonell wrote:
steve remchak wrote:
Did some one say event magnet?????


And all mentions of it have been erased at your request. You of all people should realize how accommodating the club can be, you fucking moron.

Consider this your first and last warning. There are no personal attacks like this on the forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:21 pm 
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steve remchak wrote:
And you should remember the blowback I received, especially for using such language. You can't have it both ways, unless of course you are a bleeding heart crusader.


I've apologized to you more than once and like you as a person. I'm not being flippant about being sincerely sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:21 pm 
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RamVennam wrote:
Hi -- this is Belinda, logged in as Ram since I don't have an account. :)

A few points to make:

Belinda,

Welcome and thank you for your post. I really do appreciate you sharing your viewpoint and I am can tell you likely feel like you are walking into a lions den. I do hope that when the dust settles that you don't have a negative opinion of the club and the members. We are a diverse bunch and we may not agree on everything. But I have yet to meet a member who didn't wish his/her significant other/spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend/whatever was more involved.

Richard

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:22 pm 
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Belinda wins.

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:24 pm 
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So... people can't play nice when asked. :( I am going to lock this thread over night to let people cool down and then "maybe" unlock it sometime tomorrow. Personal insults, etc. can be taken to email...

Richard

Edit... After some consideration, I don't see thing going in a positive direction if unlocked. So I am going leave this locked unless I get a number of people (particularly anyone who didn't get to have their say earlier) asking for it to be unlocked. Have a good weekend.

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Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.


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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Girl (THSCC Facebook drama)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:27 pm 
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Steven Carter wrote:
Belinda wins.

This.

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