Death at Pikes Peak Hillclimb

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:54 pm

I typically try to follow events around Pikes Peak, but have been busy recently so I am just now seeing news items filter out regarding the 2014 event held this past weekend. Apparently one participant died in a crash just after he crossed the finish line. Here is an interesting and respectful account from someone who was on the scene when it happened...

http://www.motorsport.com/hillclimb/new ... l-moments/

I count Pikes Peak Hill Climb and Isle of Man TT as two of the most naturally dangerous motor-sporting events held today. The take away from the article is not about the natural danger of the event (it is what it is), but rather how apparently unprepared the organizers were from a support staff perspective on the top of the mountain. Who knows if the biker would have survived if things had been different, but I am astounded that for such a high profile and long running event that the only ambulance was stationed at the bottom of the mountain (13 mile drive to the top).

Richard

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:35 pm

To put the numbers in perspective, there have been 5 PP deaths. 15 Indy 500 deaths. And 242 Isle of Man deaths. With all three races about the same age. *shrug*

--Donnie

Rob Keehner · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:58 pm

Don't shrug.

It's like racing on the "Ring" with only an ambulance on pit lane. The response times were shamefully poor. They weren't even prepared for an airlift within an hour let alone get someone to the ER in an hour.

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:12 pm

Too bad the goal for trauma in the US, or at least was when I was in the game, is to get the patient to surgery within the hour.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:32 am

After a fellow autocrosser and my friend Jeremy Foley and Yuri (finished 7th this year as a driver, not a co-pilot) went off the mountain in dramatic fashion in their Evo two years ago, I chatted with him for about 15 minutes about it at Nationals that year. Basically, while the people there all don't want to get hurt, they understand the element of danger here that a mistake quite likely would be terminal.

While the idea of a standby medical airlift is great, the cost is outrageous. Anyone who has been to Pikes Peak knows that there is really nothing around. My dad lives in the foothills of Colorado at 8300 feet up about 21 miles from Fort Collins. About two years ago, he had a bad accident, was knocked out for nearly 45 minutes and it took EMS 1.5 hours to get there. That's just the plain fact of how hard it is in remote conditions... and his place is not nearly as remote as Pikes Peak, although 12 miles of it is purely dirt roads. Once they raise the fees enough to to cover airlift medical services, no one would run as it would be cost prohibitive. - AB

Rob Keehner · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:07 am

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT!!!

You can afford 200K cars, million dollar specials and you say you can't afford a helicopter.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:24 am

Donnie Barnes wrote:

To put the numbers in perspective, there have been 5 PP deaths. 15 Indy 500 deaths. And 242 Isle of Man deaths.

I had never looked up the numbers and the Isle of Man deaths is pretty shocking. I looked at the Wikipedia list last night and I think that event has gotten past a particular hump in that a specific number of deaths per year is just accepted. With just a few exceptions, and even up to today, they experience roughly 1-5 deaths a year on that track. The deaths at Indy seem to be on a downward trend. Actually only five at PP is relatively low.

I think another factor when looking at those three events is the level of driver/rider safety. While PP does have motorcycle, ATV, etc. classes, I suspect the bulk is using closed cockpit (i.e. full cage) vehicles. And if you have ever looked at some of the cages used for PP they are quite serious. There have been some truely terrifying wrecks at Pike Peak in recent years and I think the drivers didn't die due to their own personal protection measures. While Isle of Man generally focuses almost solely on bikes that (lets face it) have close to zero personal protection. I suspect many of the TT riders who died, were dead the moment they lost control. Those TT guys are throwbacks. You might as well call them gladiators.

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Basically, while the people there all don't want to get hurt, they understand the element of danger here that a mistake quite likely would be terminal.

I am not discounting what you are saying at all Aaron. I agree they accept the basic risk to a degree. But I also suspect that after an accident, and when they wake up and find themselves hurt, they likely at that moment want the best man can give them regardless of cost.

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Once they raise the fees enough to to cover airlift medical services, no one would run as it would be cost prohibitive.

I know you are responding to Rob's comment above, but I don't know if standby airlift is the answer. To the recent thread about Summit Point, there is always a balance. F1 runs almost exclusively at tracks that have a high degree of safety designed in. They have airlift medical services on standby and they don't allow cars on track if the helicopter can't take off. I am sure all of that is huge money. But even something like having a second ambulance in place at the top of the mountain might have helped. The cost for that can't be prohibitive. I suspect they likely have been getting by with running things on the cheap for awhile.

Another sad thing about Pikes Peak is that large manufactures such as Peugeot have no problem bringing a true factory efforts ($$$) to the event to set records and get lots of positive PR. It is unfortunate that somehow the event organizers are not able to convert some of that into cash for them to help the event. I don't think improvements have to always be on the backs of the participants.

Richard

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:25 am

Rob Keehner wrote:

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT!!!

You can afford 200K cars, million dollar specials and you say you can't afford a helicopter.

Not bullshit. Have you taken a look at some of the cars there? While there are many serious dollar cars, much like OLOA, there are multiple classes that are lower dollar builds. There's a highly modified E30 that has about $20k in it. If the fees go from the current $1400 for a car, to $20k, you don't think there will be some attrition? We're not talking about a single day, we're talking about 7 days of cost. - AB

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:29 am

Richard, on your point about extra ambulances, unless they can treat them there, getting them to a "close" hospital might be 2 hours. Not really a help in most situations. Thus the need for airlift.

In the end I really don't care how they set it up. For those that want to participate should evaluate the risk and determine if they want to participate. If they really voted for safety by not attending, things might change. My guess is that won't be the case. - AB

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:43 am

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Richard, on your point about extra ambulances, unless they can treat them there, getting them to a "close" hospital might be 2 hours. Not really a help in most situations. Thus the need for airlift.

Lets say for sake of argument that anything serious needs to be airlifted. I am not an EMT, etc. but I suspect there is some level of care that exists between "first responder" and "trama center". I don't know the details on the guy that died, but by reading that article, it really sounds like they really were unprepared. My comment about "ambulance at the top" is more about improved capability to aid and less about transport. If an extra ambulance is not the right answer, then I am sure there is other things that can be done that are not a huge financial lift. I hope the organizers use this as a learning experience.

Richard

Pete Guthrie · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:27 pm

that hits pretty hard.Rally is the same way, help cna be a long way away.There are times when you wreck, that things can go bad quickly.Only because help is a ways off,long ways off.Losing a fellow racer in a very fave event,hurts.

Rob Keehner · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:07 pm

Heres the deal chumpcar probably doesn't need a helo onsite because the speeds are low and risk is much lower. ALMS needs one because the go 180mph in an open cockpit car. They typically have one and an onsite triage setup for trauma.

Quite simply if Peugeot, Nissan or other manufacturers want the event for publicity where they are likely to spend a 3-5 million total promotional budget the money exists for those things. Charge them a sanctioning fee for providing increased infrastructure.

Even VIR stations an ambulance in the south paddock when running full course. Even during amateur events a truck is onsite in about a minute. Not having a truck at both ends of the track is negligent.

clinehall · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:13 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

To put the numbers in perspective, there have been 5 PP deaths. 15 Indy 500 deaths. And 242 Isle of Man deaths. With all three races about the same age. *shrug*

--Donnie

amazing number of deaths with the Isle of Man. Reminds me of the number of deaths at Daytona Bike week http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daytona_Beach_Bike_Week

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:23 am

FWIW, I'll share a back country rescue story. I have been known to do some multi-day back country dirt-bike/camping adventures. We often carry a Spot messenger that provides tracking and search & rescue for about $2/mo.

http://www.findmespot.com/en/

One of the guys I ride with got to test it recently. He crashed in the Colorado back country and broke his leg. Pressed the SOS button on the Spot messenger and was on a chopper on 90min. Obviously if you are alone and unconscious, it doesn't work very well.

Just sayin - if you can pay $2/mo and be on a chopper in 90min without any standby EMS/ambulance, a large organized event should be able to provide emergency extraction in a timely and cost effective manner.

Maybe apples and oranges, but I'm just sayin.

Cash

RobLupella · **Posted:** Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:31 am

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Rob Keehner wrote:

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT!!!

You can afford 200K cars, million dollar specials and you say you can't afford a helicopter.

Not bullshit. Have you taken a look at some of the cars there? While there are many serious dollar cars, much like OLOA, there are multiple classes that are lower dollar builds. There's a highly modified E30 that has about $20k in it. If the fees go from the current $1400 for a car, to $20k, you don't think there will be some attrition? We're not talking about a single day, we're talking about 7 days of cost. - AB

I read some of the comments including one by someone who makes some points about there being a First Aide Station and EMT personnel on top of the mountain. To me what needs to be looked at is the issue of is it feasible to get a helo up there in a reasonable time frame or have ambulances closer? Was there adequately trained personnel in range? While cost is an object the folks in $20K E30's are not representative any more of all the participants. There is manufacturer participation and they can afford "sponsorship" fees to provide better organization of this event. There will always be a risk involved with motorsports but the duty should be that the owners/organizers of events/tracks make sure that the event is "safe"

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Death at Pikes Peak Hillclimb

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