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 Post subject: Re: Sad news from Summit Point this weekend
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:48 pm 
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Which is irrelevant if the track is found to be negligent.


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 Post subject: Re: Sad news from Summit Point this weekend
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:22 pm 
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Chuck Branscomb wrote:
Rob Keehner wrote:
Atlanta has shit tons of bare concrete impacted in earthen banking. With the high speed nature of the track it posses more risk.


You just need to be better at car control at Road Atlanta! ...like this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZjBRjQuqep0

See, when you have a problem, you "feature it" :D
:shock:


Yeah, I meant to pit then........

Waivers are barely any protection and none against negligence. Tracks are required to not be negligent in their operations and if some judge determines that the track was negligent in allowing woodwork to be unprotected by armco then the waiver is not much good other than to mitigate

Motorsports is dangerous and I try to remember that so I can drive my car home.....

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 Post subject: Re: Sad news from Summit Point this weekend
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:05 am 
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RobLupella wrote:
Waivers are barely any protection and none against negligence. Tracks are required to not be negligent in their operations and if some judge determines that the track was negligent in allowing woodwork to be unprotected by armco then the waiver is not much good other than to mitigate


Yeah, I think it's gross negligence when a wavier is done for. However, in front of the right jury, one would think you could easily make a case that allowing any potential path to a tree is grossly negligent, but it's more clear in a case where an employee of the track (or implied employee) does something grossly negligent that results in an ugly outcome (say something like a worker leaving fire extinguisher on the track by accident which is then hit by a car causing a crash/death/etc).

I would bet we are very close to the "next wave" of litigation with regard to track events -- suing instructors. The progression since track events started in the 70s is marching on. If anyone who instructs on track does not want to lose their entire net worth (and more, future claims against income), at the very least you should have a liability policy that will cover you. Also don't assume that an umbrella policy automatically applies -- just look what happened when the insurance laws in NC were recently changed limiting your liability coverage on a track to a very small amount. Insurance companies aren't stupid, so no umbrella policy will ever apply (since your underlying policy doesn't reach it's limit due to the law change).

Very few instructors understand the potential underlying financial liability they are exposing themselves (or their family) to, but at least most respect the safety liability by now. All the "track insurance" companies only offer property damage coverage to one's own car. In the worst case outcomes, that amount of money will be trivial compared to the liability exposure.

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 Post subject: Re: Sad news from Summit Point this weekend
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:51 am 
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I am not an attorney, so take with a grain of salt...

Chuck Branscomb wrote:
However, in front of the right jury, one would think you could easily make a case that allowing any potential path to a tree is grossly negligent, but it's more clear in a case where an employee of the track (or implied employee) does something grossly negligent that results in an ugly outcome (say something like a worker leaving fire extinguisher on the track by accident which is then hit by a car causing a crash/death/etc).

I wonder if a history can be established. I don't know if there have been any other deaths at SP due to impact with trees. If this case is not deemed negligent, maybe the next will be?

Chuck Branscomb wrote:
I would bet we are very close to the "next wave" of litigation with regard to track events -- suing instructors.

Is "professional" instructors next with each instructor being an employee of a LLC to reduce or divert personal liability? I assume to show it is not just a sham, there would need to be more vetting of who the instructors are, training, policies and procedures to follow, etc. And as Bernie would point out... extra cost.

Richard

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 Post subject: Re: Sad news from Summit Point this weekend
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:06 am 
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What about the likelihood of students being sued for negligent behavior?

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 Post subject: Re: Sad news from Summit Point this weekend
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:31 am 
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steve remchak wrote:
What about the likelihood of students being sued for negligent behavior?

I would expect that if I was driving a car, and someone is killed in an incident that I am involved in, I would expect the likelyhood of being sued would be high. I would almost bet it has happened already at a track event.

Richard

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 Post subject: Re: Sad news from Summit Point this weekend
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:51 am 
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There was a very highly publicized incident in California a few years back actually.

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 Post subject: Re: Sad news from Summit Point this weekend
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:57 am 
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All in this thread. See the club discussion section for more information. I have organized a safety seminar at Long Road Racing this Friday the 20th at 6pm.

Glenn will be presenting using a decommissioned and stripped pro MX5.

And guest star Kerrigan Smith from VIR will be coming to speak about track safety. He is the tracks general manager of operations. Be there!

Alright you litigious weenies can get back to talking about suits and briefs.

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