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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:49 pm 
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Scott Johnson wrote:
Don't do data? however did we survive in the '90s. I remember when we used to keep an atlas in the car.

I've got an iPhone, but forgo data and it costs about $8/month (plus whatever I pay for a used iPhone). ATT network.

In a pinch, I probably can turn data on, but I will have to pay per kb.


What are you some kinda hippie? ;-)

To what Andrew was talking about before with switching GSM phones and Verizon, you can do the same SIM card switching on Verizon phones as long as they have a SIM card slot which I think is all of them that aren't from Apple, they do have to be Verizon phones, but they are readily available on the used market. I'm on something like the 4-5th phone using the same SIM card. The swap is super quick and easy.

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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:05 pm 
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Les Davis wrote:
Scott Johnson wrote:
Don't do data? however did we survive in the '90s. I remember when we used to keep an atlas in the car.

I've got an iPhone, but forgo data and it costs about $8/month (plus whatever I pay for a used iPhone). ATT network.

In a pinch, I probably can turn data on, but I will have to pay per kb.


What are you some kinda hippie? ;-)

To what Andrew was talking about before with switching GSM phones and Verizon, you can do the same SIM card switching on Verizon phones as long as they have a SIM card slot which I think is all of them that aren't from Apple, they do have to be Verizon phones, but they are readily available on the used market. I'm on something like the 4-5th phone using the same SIM card. The swap is super quick and easy.

Yes you have to swap the SIM card, but then you have to call VSW and give them your number and the IMEI of the phone you are moving to. It's only a few minutes but a nuisance nonetheless.

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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:07 pm 
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My iPhone 4S does have a SIM slot. I don't know if Kara's 4 does.

If I were to buy a SIM card, would that override whatever it is that makes it a Verizon phone? For example, would this workflow work:

1. Buy Straight Talk SIM card
2. Put it in phone
3. Phone "forgets" that it's on Verizon while the SIM card is in place
4. Try it for a while to see how it is
5. Maybe take it to Catawba this Christmas and see if there's any signal
6. If I decide to go back to Verizon, pop the SIM card out

Surely it can't be that simple, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:15 pm 
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I don't know the details on the iPhone, but I thought that the Verizon specific phones have completely different radios. However, there is a chance that they did put both radios into the CDMA phone, so you might luck out.


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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:33 pm 
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Karl Shultz wrote:
My iPhone 4S does have a SIM slot. I don't know if Kara's 4 does.

If I were to buy a SIM card, would that override whatever it is that makes it a Verizon phone? For example, would this workflow work:

1. Buy Straight Talk SIM card
2. Put it in phone
3. Phone "forgets" that it's on Verizon while the SIM card is in place
4. Try it for a while to see how it is
5. Maybe take it to Catawba this Christmas and see if there's any signal
6. If I decide to go back to Verizon, pop the SIM card out

Surely it can't be that simple, right?



No, in this case it can't.

Verizon and Straight talk use different bandwidth, so you can't use the same phone on both networks.



I will add that my wife and I switched to ST about 3 months ago, and a big factor was the thread Whitney mentioned earlier and those folks' positive experience with ST. We had been LONG-time Verizon customers, I think we started with them (Alltel) back in ~1994-95. We had a plan with ~800 shared minutes, I had unlimited (grandfathered) data, she had 2GB, and we had NO texting (it was an additional $10/mo PER phone to add texting). Our bill was ~$137 with a 17% discount through my company, but I quit my job back in the spring, so it jumped up to ~$155 after that. I called VZW customer service to see if they could offer me anything that would entice me to stay, anything to lower my bill. They did offer what was presented as a special customer loyalty plan that was ~$60/month per phone (plus fees) for similar shared minutes, 2GB data on each phone and texting, but it was basically a Verizon pre-paid plan- no discounts/subsidies on future phone purchases, etc.

After a few small glitches getting the settings right, I've been very pleased with everything about ST. Word of warning- if you are the type of person who has to have access to a retail outlet to go to, or if you hope to have a stellar experience with every customer service phone call you make, then ST is probably not for you. However, if you have some sense, and some patience when it comes to CS issues and you don't need the latest/greatest phone, and want to save some money, then ST will be fine for you.


Another thing to consider- if you don't mind losing your phone number(s), your unlimited data VZW plan is worth ~$200 per line to someone. You'll have to have VZW CS do an "assumption of liability" with the person who wants to purchase the plan, but it's something to consider. I thought long and hard about it, but I have had the same number for so long, I couldn't see giving it up, so I just let it go.


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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Dick,

If you post or PM me the number I can look it up in the same DBs that Straight Talk uses and see if any issues stand out about the number.

Republic Wireless is a Sprint MVNO and should have full Sprint footprint. (MVNOs get a different PRL version so it's impossible to really tell) It should work well and it has the bonus of being able to use your wifi if cell coverage is terrible at a place you spend a lot of time. It's not going to be the most polished product, the website's back end was 'finished' about a day before the Moto X launch. The switch that runs the call processing piece has been in production for about a month before the Moto X launch. There are some really bright guys working on it though.

Full disclosure, I work for Bandwidth.com which is the parent of RW. Buy local I suppose.

I've been using Sprint for a few years. Coverage isn't Verizon by any stretch of the imagination but it generally lets me make a phone call/send a text when I need it to. Data leaves me wanting, but not enough to pay for Verizon.


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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:44 pm 
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JamesShort wrote:
Les Davis wrote:
Scott Johnson wrote:
Don't do data? however did we survive in the '90s. I remember when we used to keep an atlas in the car.

I've got an iPhone, but forgo data and it costs about $8/month (plus whatever I pay for a used iPhone). ATT network.

In a pinch, I probably can turn data on, but I will have to pay per kb.


What are you some kinda hippie? ;-)

To what Andrew was talking about before with switching GSM phones and Verizon, you can do the same SIM card switching on Verizon phones as long as they have a SIM card slot which I think is all of them that aren't from Apple, they do have to be Verizon phones, but they are readily available on the used market. I'm on something like the 4-5th phone using the same SIM card. The swap is super quick and easy.

Yes you have to swap the SIM card, but then you have to call VSW and give them your number and the IMEI of the phone you are moving to. It's only a few minutes but a nuisance nonetheless.


I guess I didn't make this clear before, but this is not my experience. Swap SIM cars zero phone calls to Verizon. I can log into my Verizon account and it knows what phone I have put the SIM card in without doing anything beyond the physical swap, I have done this many many times.

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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:20 pm 
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Okay, I'll chime in. I'm somewhat of a phone junkie and I've been on all 4 main carriers in the past 5 years... Below are my experiences and opinions.

Firstly, a pet peeve of mine is the term "4G." 4th generation wireless, technically speaking, is WiMax (Sprint "4G," Clearwire). LTE (long-term evolution, the latest wireless standard) should really be called 5G since it is 5th generation, but nobody calls it that. Some companies, like T-Mobile, have an insanely fast and upgraded HSPA+ (3G) network, which operates faster than some 4G networks, so they call it "4G" in their marketing despite it being 3rd-gen tech. They also have an LTE network, which is technically 4G, but they market that as "LTE" since it is a lot faster and they need a way to differentiate it since they've already used the term "4G." The whole thing is a mess and there is so much misinformation everywhere, so I prefer to call them by their underlying network types instead of generation.


Device Subsidies
Today's smartphones are $600-800 devices in terms of retail price value. But nobody wants to fork over that much money for "a phone" (even though they are in fact very sophisticated tiny computers), so enter phone subsidies. Telecom companies charge $100+ per month for actual service that should cost $50 or less and require a 2-year contract in return for giving you your shiny new phone for $199. This sounds great at first, but after 2 years once you've essentially "paid off" your device (at least once, do the math!), your bill will not decrease. I suppose that might be alright if you buy a phone at the subsidized price every 2 years, but then you are locked into buying devices on their schedule. The handheld device market changes rapidly (look at what phones were out 2 years ago), and there are definitely good times to buy a new device and bad times, so having flexibility allows you to get a better device for your money. And if you wait longer than 2 years between phones, then you're needlessly paying that extra subsidy in your bill every month (don't worry, the telecoms don't mind a bit). PLUS, and this is a hugely overlooked factor, wireless SERVICE changes rapidly too. The networks they were using two years ago are very different than what's running today. You may start off with great service, and it turns into crap before your contract is up (or the opposite can happen as companies launch new networks and deploy new equipment). The whole subsidies scheme is a racket that has been going on for a while and has made the telecom companies untold amounts of money, and consumers are slowly starting to catch on.

Google has been making a big impact by offering their Nexus devices for around $300 (without contract or even service) for several years now. They come unlocked and ready to use on any GSM network (ever wonder why you can't buy a Nexus devices from Google that works on Verizon? Because CDMA as it exists in this country does not allow this sort of flexibility). Combine that with a cheap prepaid wireless line (prepaid isn't just for drug dealers anymore!) and you can save a LOT of money. Most carriers will also offer you monthly service without a contract, not that they will tell you that upfront. T-Mobile was the first company to go completely contract-free with all their plans, and they lowered their prices to a max of $70 for unlimited everything. They then added the option where if you buy a device from them, you can pay full price up front OR finance it and make payments attached to your monthly bill until the device is paid off. Want to cancel service? No problem (since there's no contract), but you still have to keep paying the device off even if you don't have service with them, just like a credit card or layaway. Makes a lot of sense. AT&T just announced last week that they will be offering contract-free plans (they're calling it "Mobile Share Value Plan") alongside their contract plans in a similar style, with the ability to finance the devices. This is GREAT NEWS FOR CONSUMERS, and I for one want to support any companies that do this.


Device Locking
When it comes to GSM device interoperability, while they are radio-compatible in most cases, if you buy a phone directly from a carrier it will be software restricted to work only with their service - a.k.a. "Locked." However, you can request the unlock code from the carrier which will unlock your phone permanently to be used on any compatible network. The stipulations are typically that you must have either bought your device in full, paid off the financing, or fulfilled the original contract (to pay the phone's subsidy). I recommend getting your unlock code as soon as you are eligible.

Some phones can also be hacked to become unlocked, which requires first jailbreaking or rooting the phone. While jailbreaking and rooting are legal in the USA (this is the practice of installing different software into your device), unlocking a device to bypass the carrier restriction IS ILLEGAL. However, there are cases where an unlock code cannot be legally obtained, for example if the account your phone was purchased under is no longer active, even if the contract was fulfilled, some carriers will not provide an unlock code. Unlocking through software modification can be a good option at that point.

Nexus devices and some "international" versions of phones come unlocked out of the box.



Here are my experiences with the various networks:

CDMA Networks
Verizon
They have the best coverage, and the highest monthly bill. They no longer offer unlimited data unless you are grandfathered in an old plan. Worth it if you value being able to use your phone absolutely everywhere.
My biggest complaint is the lock-in. Recent Verizon phones utilize SIM cards, older phones simply had an IMEI (kind of like a serial or MAC address) that had to be registered with your account before it would work. They are a CDMA network and you can ONLY use Verizon phones on the Verizon network, and Verizon phones cannot be used on any other network. So you can switch phones, as long as both phones are Verizon phones (sort of like "this car is available in any color you like, as long as it's black!"). This is the ultimate lock-in. I will not patronize Verizon for this reason.
3G CDMA - 0.5-3 Mbit typical speed
4G LTE - 10-60+ Mbit (insanely fast)

Sprint
Also a CDMA network with the same bad-for-consumers lock-in (and no, despite using the same CDMA technology, Sprint phones can NOT be used on Verizon or vice versa). When they launched their WiMax network a few years ago, it was decently fast but had very poor penetration in buildings. Now it is congested and slow. Their 3G network has been crap for a long time. Consumer Reports recently reported that they are the worst of the main carriers in this country in terms of customer service and coverage. They do offer an unlimited data plan, which is convenient for them since their network is so slow you couldn't use a lot of data if you tried.
3G CDMA - 0.1-1 Mbit typical speed (slowly loading webpages, email; not fast enough for video)
4G WiMax - 0.5-10 Mbit (can be decently fast, on the rare occasion that it connects)
4G LTE - 1-15 Mbit (usable, but slow for an LTE network)


GSM Networks
AT&T
The most popular and extensive GSM network. They have a solid HSPA+ 3G network, and a well developed LTE network. Not quite as far reaching as Verizon, but probably the closest. Being GSM, their phones are radio-compatible with other GSM networks like those found throughout Europe and other parts of the world, as well as other carriers in the USA.
2G Edge - 0.1-0.5 Mbit (slow, but rarely used since HSPA+ is almost everywhere)
3G HSPA+ 1-12 Mbit (plenty fast enough for most people, but not the fastest HSPA+)
4G LTE - 10-50+ Mbit (insanely fast)

T-Mobile
A GSM network, with a relatively new LTE network. Radio-compatible with other GSM networks (there are some issues with lack of a particular frequency on certain phones, so for example you might not be able to get 3G to work but 2G would work, but most of them are compatible. LTE network is 100% compatible with AT&T's LTE network).
Their HSPA+ network is the best of its kind, and astoundingly fast for being a "3G" technology (T-Mobile markets it as "4G" and will show "4G" on a T-Mobile branded phone when connected). It has great coverage in towns, but is very lacking once you leave populated areas, falling back to the 2G Edge service which is basically just frustrating.
T-Mobile was also the first company to offer transparent, contract-free plans with phone financing. Once you pay your phone off, a portion of your bill drops off.
2G Edge - 0.1-0.5 Mbit (almost unusable for any modern smartphone)
3G HSPA+ 2-20 Mbit (faster than most people need)
4G LTE - 5-25+ Mbit (very fast, but not the fastest LTE network)


MVNO Networks
An MVNO (mobile virtual network operator) is a carrier that simply re-sells another carrier's service, much how Earthlink re-sells Time Warner Cable in the Triangle. While they utilize another company's network, they provide their own customer service, billing, and can enforce restrictions such as usage limits and others. They also usually have restrictions on roaming outside of the particuar network they re-sell, whereas the parent service provider may offer roaming to their direct customers. Your mileage may vary, but there is surely some savings to be had with these networks.

List of MVNOs in the USA


What I am doing
Me personally, I bought a GSM phone (up front for $600) about a year ago and used it on T-Mobile's $30/month prepaid plan. $600 is a lot to shell out for a phone, but paying $30/month instead of let's say $80 made the phone pay for itself in less than a year. T-Mobile was great, very reasonably priced and great coverage in towns, but I moved out to the country and they don't have any coverage out there, so I got an AT&T no-contract plan and am using the same phone on the AT&T network. I pay a bit more, but I have better coverage and it works at my house. And, I will soon be switching to their new cheaper plan ("Mobile Share Value Plan") soon to save even more money (I'll end up paying about $120 with my employer discount for 2 smartphone lines, unlimited text & talk, and 10GB data to share between them). This flexibility with GSM networks and phones is what is critical, in my opinion, for a fair and competitive cellular market (see also: Europe for the past 10 years).


What should you do?
Well, that depends on your needs:

- Want the best coverage absolutely everywhere, and don't care the cost? Verizon all the way, but you'll have to sign a contract and only upgrade phones every 2 years or pay full price for the device AND the subsidy in your monthly bill. And forget using your phone outside the country.

- Are you a cheapskate who only stays in populated areas and may travel internationally? Buy a Nexus from Google and get T-Mobile prepaid.

- Do you want a good balance of fair carrier pricing, good service, flexibility, and might travel internationally? AT&T is my go-to right now. Coverage is excellent and broad, speed is good, and their new contract-free plans look promising. Either buy a Nexus, pay full price for another phone, or finance your phone and go contract-free. If AT&T sucks next month, you can jump over to T-Mobile or any other GSM network. Going outside the country? Grab a pre-paid SIM card when you get there, pop it in your phone and go.


Note that all of this information may be obsolete or incorrect tomorrow. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:58 pm 
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Just a quick detail about T-Mobile's HSPA+, they have rolled out HSPA+42 (one of the areas is in the Triangle) which is 42Mbit service and gives LTE a run for it's money. But, limited coverage and has a higher latency than LTE.


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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:15 pm 
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Zach, thanks for taking the time to type all that out and helping explain it to those like myself who 'just want something that works'.

I've been with Verizon (and every carrier bought out before them by about 5 different companies) since 1994 and have been pretty happy with their service and coverage. Being in a rural area (everywhere east of I-95 is 'rural' LOL) Verizon is the one to have for sure, though it is pricey.

I'm not one to have to have the latest 'shiny new thing' (still can't believe Apple fanbois stand IN LINE, just to buy a damn phone) but the two-year contract has been pain a couple of times for my wife and I. She needs a new phone, and had needed one the past 6-months, but we are locked in until mid 2014 before she can upgrade. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:33 pm 
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Vincent Keene wrote:
Zach, thanks for taking the time to type all that out and helping explain it to those like myself who 'just want something that works'.

I've been with Verizon (and every carrier bought out before them by about 5 different companies) since 1994 and have been pretty happy with their service and coverage. Being in a rural area (everywhere east of I-95 is 'rural' LOL) Verizon is the one to have for sure, though it is pricey.

I'm not one to have to have the latest 'shiny new thing' (still can't believe Apple fanbois stand IN LINE, just to buy a damn phone) but the two-year contract has been pain a couple of times for my wife and I. She needs a new phone, and had needed one the past 6-months, but we are locked in until mid 2014 before she can upgrade. :(

No problem. I've been meaning to write up all this for a while and this gave me the excuse to do it. :)

Contracts are definitely annoying. One thing that I forgot to mention is you can buy used phones (eBay, craigslist) for any of the carriers, even Verizon (as long as it's a Verizon phone), and NOT renew your contract and even go month-to-month. You're still technically paying the subsidies, but if that's the only carrier that gives you coverage you don't really have any options anyway, and you could avoid getting stuck in another contract that way.

With AT&T (being a pretty heavy hitter in the wireless world) following T-Mobile's lead ditching subsidies in favor of device payment plans, I wonder if Verizon and Sprint will follow as well. With more consumers being educated, hopefully the old model is starting to become obsolete.

IMPORTANT NOTE!!! If you buy a used phone, check its IMEI online (http://imei.info is one) or better yet with the carrier itself to make sure it's not blacklisted. If a device is reported lost/stolen and the insurance is cashed in, the old device is BANNED forever in a common database shared by the carriers. Don't get stuck with a stolen phone!

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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:53 pm 
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Zach,

Great info. Thank you very much.

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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:02 pm 
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Zach Hill wrote:
Contracts are definitely annoying. One thing that I forgot to mention is you can buy used phones (eBay, craigslist) for any of the carriers, even Verizon (as long as it's a Verizon phone), and NOT renew your contract and even go month-to-month. You're still technically paying the subsidies, but if that's the only carrier that gives you coverage you don't really have any options anyway, and you could avoid getting stuck in another contract that way.

With AT&T (being a pretty heavy hitter in the wireless world) following T-Mobile's lead ditching subsidies in favor of device payment plans, I wonder if Verizon and Sprint will follow as well. With more consumers being educated, hopefully the old model is starting to become obsolete.

IMPORTANT NOTE!!! If you buy a used phone, check its IMEI online (http://imei.info is one) or better yet with the carrier itself to make sure it's not blacklisted. If a device is reported lost/stolen and the insurance is cashed in, the old device is BANNED forever in a common database shared by the carriers. Don't get stuck with a stolen phone!


Glad you brought this up, this what I've been doing the past few years. I like Verizon service and am grandfathered into an unlimited data plan, so I've just been buying phones off craigslist. In my experience, you can get pretty good deals and don't need to pay anywhere near retail. Generally, the used phone price isn't a whole lot more than the store contract price for Android phones. I do overpay a bit for my plan compared to some of the options you mention, but I get a discount through work that makes it fairly reasonable and I get to keep my Verizon service and live contract free so that is nice. I also get to upgrade my phone whenever I like, just gotta part with $250-300 which isn't much more than the contract upgrade price for a similar phone.

One question, and I'm sure I could find this out myself but perhaps you know. My current phone Motorola Razr MAXX HD has a GSM radio in it as well as the CDMA and a SIM card slot, can I just get it unlocked and use a on any network even though it is a "Verizon" phone?

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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:56 pm 
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Les Davis wrote:
I guess I didn't make this clear before, but this is not my experience. Swap SIM cars zero phone calls to Verizon. I can log into my Verizon account and it knows what phone I have put the SIM card in without doing anything beyond the physical swap, I have done this many many times.

I'm going to try it out with my rezound tonight :). I feel like I've always had to call them in addition to swapping sim cards.

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 Post subject: Re: Experience with alternate cell phone carriers?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:43 am 
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Zach, nice writeup. One question -- why are you on ATT prepaid instead of an MVNO? Seems to be $10-15 more per month on the same network (with a "different" cap). Just wondering what your motivation was. (I can think of several, but I'd like to hear from you!)

Also to note: The international goodness of a penta-band GSM phone (Nexus) is fantastic. I have traveled to Ireland, Scotland, and the Netherlands in the last 2 years and was able to pick up a cheap pre-paid sim in each country and use the phone for voice, text, and data (gps!).

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