"A complete lack of direction...."

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:28 pm

says the folks at CR about Honda. Not sure if what's more striking: that comment, or that Subaru is a #1 CR pick. No, CR isn't the end-all be-all, especially for serious car types, but their word holds sway with Joe and Jane Normal....

http://www.cnbc.com/id/46559051/

and

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/consumer-reports-magazine/April-2012/who-makes-the-best-cars.html

steve remchak · **Posted:** Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:11 pm

wow. i guess Toyota must have upped their stipend to CR this year. :lol:

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

The Fit (which looks somewhat atrocious) is probably the only exciting car on the Honda lot. Honda made the new Civic slower, all of the Acuras have some of the gaudiest trim out there, and the CR-Z captures none of the appeal of the original CRX.

Subaru's next on the chopping block for having "A complete lack of direction." Thanks for making the Outback and Forester full blown SUVs that handle and resemble Ford Explorers.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:14 pm

Honda styling has been adrift for a number of years. They have a few models over the past years that I like (S2000, Fit), but the others (including Acura) are beyond ugly. I don't know what is going on with the recent lack of market leadership. It almost seems like they are focusing on profit margin (build cheap, sell for same price)? And sad as it sounds, I wonder if the US design/engineering group is involved and making a mess of things?

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:57 pm

Richard Casto wrote:

Honda styling has been adrift for a number of years. They have a few models over the past years that I like (S2000, Fit), but the others (including Acura) are beyond ugly. I don't know what is going on with the recent lack of market leadership. It almost seems like they are focusing on profit margin (build cheap, sell for same price)? And sad as it sounds, I wonder if the US design/engineering group is involved and making a mess of things?

I think they're just getting nervous from the pressure that the Koreans are putting on them by dumping superior products for less money. Its tough to compete against companies that are being paid by their governments to flood a market. We've seen this happen before, so it should come as no surprise.

Blaming Honda isn't exactly fair. They haven't had to compete in a fair market before.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:12 pm

I just find it impressive that CR would make such a bold statement. Maybe they feel a little jilted after putting Hondas at or near the top for the past 20 years? I think the pressure is on from Korea, as Jason mentioned. I find it odd that they chose Subaru as #1, although their styling is much more mainstream for 2012 than in past years, that much is certain. They do point at the lack of trucks/SUVs and more reliability from the WRX as positives--something they also credit Mazda (dumping the RX-8 and Tribute) with their climbing the ranks. I guess they couldn't give it to Toyota given the recent issues and maybe they didn't feel like Hyundai had quite earned it{shrug}? I dunno.

I am not a loyalist to any marque--personally I like seeing the Hondoyota hegemony challenged. Makes everyone work harder to bring a better product to market (well, unless you're GM or Chrysler, then you just have to cry to the gov't--but I digress :deadhorse:

)

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:18 pm

Steven Carter wrote:

I am not a loyalist to any marque--personally I like seeing the Hondoyota hegemony challenged. Makes everyone work harder to bring a better product to market (well, unless you're GM or Chrysler, then you just have to cry to the gov't--but I digress :deadhorse:

)

Really tired of seeing this.

Honda, Nissan and Toyota. None of those would be where they are without the assistance of their government. Those companies have been "bailed out" for decades...

Now they are taking our taxpayer dollars because they werent getting enough of their own.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:09 am

Japanese import tax on American cars was around fifty percent when I was living in Japan. Their cars were more expensive to the Japanese because their government was subsidising the sale of rice burners in America. The stupid Americans dropped import taxes on cars an the Japs raised theirs.....who won the war?????

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:28 am

Honda missed the target by not putting a real motor in the CR-Z, with the puny Hybrid that doesn't really get great mileage its the CR-Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Patrice Bousquet · **Posted:** Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:19 am

Since 1978 we always had a Civic in the driveway up to 2 weeks ago. When we look for a new car for Kathy she was not found of the new Civic.
She like the look of the Accord coupe but not the 4 door. She try the Nissan Juke and like it and we decided to buy it, she said it reminded her in a way of the 90 Civic SI we had.
Last Saturday I finally had a chance to drive the Juke and I agree with her, it feel much more like a sport car than a crossover and the styling is definitively different.
The 90 Civic SI was the best Civic we had. I will say like Ryan, a CR-Z with the SI engine will be something that might interest me. Honda definitively need to review their strategy and spice it up.
If we want a Honda again in the driveway it will have to be a used one, an older Si or a S2000.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:52 am

you need one of these Patrice.

Patrice Bousquet · **Posted:** Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:56 am

Yes, the Juke R, the one they did with the GTR drivetrain.....

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:21 pm

I can't speak to the comments about subsidies, etc. I personally don't think that really is the issue here.

I don't know how much of Honda's analysis is saying that they were loosing sales due to the Korean scenario. Maybe they were/are. But I also suspect that a large percentage of long term Honda owners may not spend much time looking elsewhere (domestic, or otherwise) IF they continue to be happy with their current/next Honda. So as a long time Honda fan, I can easily see myself going to Honda and if I find something I like, not even really looking elsewhere. There are plenty of people who are on their Nth Honda and are looking for the next car to be Honda N+1. But if you show up at the dealership and you are not happy with what you find, or hear lots of negative buzz about Honda then you are not just turning customers off, but you are breaking long term product loyalty. Today's happy Honda owner may be tomorrows happy Hyundai owner. And not because Hyundai built a better mousetrap, but because Honda stopped making a good one.

Richard

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:44 pm

Richard Casto wrote:

And not because Hyundai built a better mousetrap, but because Honda stopped making a good one.

Richard

That right there.

I'm with CR, it's as though they've lost any sense of direction. They've essentially abandoned sporty stuff, leaving that to Mazda, I guess. And compared to Hyundai, Ford, and even GM to some degree, they're not even building great appliance cars anymore. The lot is full of goofy looking stuff that doesn't drive all that well. Kara spotted a Crosstour a couple weekends ago and said it looked "shocking." This was not a compliment.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:24 pm

Yeah, Honda is slipping. I really like my SI....very fun daily driver. Lots of revs, great shifting tranny. It's quirky looking and has that awful engine bay though. Sometimes I think if it got totaled and USAA offered me a 2012+ SI to replace it, I'd have to say thanks, but no thanks. The 9G Civic redesign (both aesthetically and drivetrain-wise...in the SI) sucks to say the least. Spring rates got even lower, less revvy 2.4L, heavier, shorter gearing (it's already pretty short).

However, my SI still doesn't have the build quality that the 5G and 6G Civics had. Laura's Accord, however, has some amazing build quality for a late model Honda. Earlier generation Accords definitely were not that well put together and quiet and refined.

But I'm love with the S2000 now. I'm pretty tempted to sell the SI while it's worth 19-20k or so and get a 99-00 Civic Sedan and an AP2

.

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"A complete lack of direction...."

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