engine freeze

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

should i be worried about my engine coolant freezing during the upcoming cold snap and cracking the block? my race car runs plain water (in fact i just changed it). it lives in an attached but unheated garage that will almost certainly get below freezing when the outside temp approaches single digits as is predicted sunday night.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:30 pm

this January has had the longest streak of days at sub-freezing temperatures in recent history. has it frozen yet?

if you're worried, drain it.

Charlie Guthrie · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:14 pm **Posts:** 832

Jason you should worry or place an incandescent trouble lamp under the front of the car. My attached garage allows latex paint and water based glue to freeze.
A little prevention costs very little compared to a cracked block or radiator.

Your block has freeze plugs, but my experience with changing the ones under the exhaust header was not pleasant, nor easy. (One freeze plug rusted through and needed replacement. And, by the way, the plug is a "unique" size available from BMW, not your local NAPA or Autozone.)
Charlie Guthrie

JasonWatts · **Posted:** Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:34 pm

i know people running water weter to put a drop light under their motorcycles in cold weather... dont know how much of a differnece it would make, but it might... i assume draining it would be the cheaper option.

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

steve remchak wrote:

this January has had the longest streak of days at sub-freezing temperatures in recent history. has it frozen yet?

if you're worried, drain it.

no, but sun will be at least 5 deg colder than anything we've seen so far. plus the rusty water i just removed probably had a lower freezing point than the fresh h20 in there now. i'd drain it but i foolishly added a $10 bottle of water wetter, and i'm both cheap and lazy.

i think the guthrie/watts idea is on the nose, put a shop light under the block, maybe cover with a tarp. only needs a little extra heat to make me feel better.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:24 pm

Which costs more. Replacing the engine or some antifreeze and a fresh bottle of water wetter?

FYI it is very hard to get all the water out of a cooling system. If you have antifreeze I would drain half of the rated capacity out (measure), replace with straight antifreeze, run engine to circulate. Make the car "track friendly" again in warm weather.

Dick

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:38 pm

what he said x2

Marty Howard · **Posted:** Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:01 pm

I have found that the attached garage never seems to go under 48 degrees. I keep a thermometer out there just in case. But if you are really worried, Target has a small heat blower with a tem gauge you can set if it drops below 40 and it will blow hot air on the engine. It's $13 bucks.

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

yeah a smart person would drain it and/or add antifreeze. unfortunately i don't have any (or an electric heater for that matter) and i'm not really digging the idea of going out in the snow to get some. besides, i'd just have to drain it again in a week since you're not allowed to run ethylene glycol in races which is why i'm in this boat to begin with. fortunately i have plenty of spare light bulbs since i replaced them with CFs when we moved in, and my wife keeps buying table lamps at garage sales so i have at least half a dozen at my disposal. two or three of those situated next to the block should be enough to keep mister freeze at bay. if i don't show up at vir you'll know i was wrong

thanks everyone

JasonWatts · **Posted:** Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:16 am

DickRasmussen wrote:

Which costs more. Replacing the engine or some antifreeze and a fresh bottle of water wetter?

FYI it is very hard to get all the water out of a cooling system. If you have antifreeze I would drain half of the rated capacity out (measure), replace with straight antifreeze, run engine to circulate. Make the car "track friendly" again in warm weather.

Dick

I would trust this method more.

as far as a $10 dollars worth of water wetter. Did you put the whole thing in? from what I remember reading on those things, its add a cap full, not a whole bottle. maybe i am just to thinking about smaller engines with smaller colling systems.

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

JasonWatts wrote:

as far as a $10 dollars worth of water wetter. Did you put the whole thing in? from what I remember reading on those things, its add a cap full, not a whole bottle. maybe i am just to thinking about smaller engines with smaller colling systems.

nope, whole bottle for 8-12 qts of water, something like that. you must be thinking of some other product. i added the WW not for cooling help but for the corrosion inhibitors, mike whitney pointed out how rusty the expansion tank looked and draining the water confirmed it. now there's a giant rust spot on my driveway that used to be my engine.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:30 am

hey Jason, if the chickens don't freeze with an incandescent bulb or two in the coop, i'm guessing your henhouse basket case should be fine. :lol:

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:33 am

Jason Tower wrote:

yeah a smart person would drain it and/or add antifreeze. unfortunately i don't have any (or an electric heater for that matter) and i'm not really digging the idea of going out in the snow to get some. besides, i'd just have to drain it again in a week since you're not allowed to run ethylene glycol in races which is why i'm in this boat to begin with. fortunately i have plenty of spare light bulbs since i replaced them with CFs when we moved in, and my wife keeps buying table lamps at garage sales so i have at least half a dozen at my disposal. two or three of those situated next to the block should be enough to keep mister freeze at bay. if i don't show up at vir you'll know i was wrong

thanks everyone

Given your limited choices, do you have anything you can use as insulation over the hood, grille, wheel wells, etc. to trap some of the light bulb heat inside the engine compartment? Also, is the attached garage insulated with any sort of insulated garage door? Will you be able to keep the garage doors closed all the time? If so the garage may stay above freezing, especially if the car faces the wall to the house. Ours does. Even our WELL insulated detached garage stays above freezing except in really long cold spells. The "earth heat" coming up through the slab can be pretty effective if the space is insulated.

Do the tracks actually prohibit antifreeze by the way? I know it is at least frowned on but what about all those open track events with mostly street cars? They certainly have antifreeze. Isn't that what catch bottles, etc. are for?

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:35 am

even LeMons prohibits anti-freeze Dick.

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

DickRasmussen wrote:

Given your limited choices, do you have anything you can use as insulation over the hood, grille, wheel wells, etc. to trap some of the light bulb heat inside the engine compartment? Also, is the attached garage insulated with any sort of insulated garage door? Will you be able to keep the garage doors closed all the time? If so the garage may stay above freezing, especially if the car faces the wall to the house. Ours does. Even our WELL insulated detached garage stays above freezing except in really long cold spells. The "earth heat" coming up through the slab can be pretty effective if the space is insulated.

Do the tracks actually prohibit antifreeze by the way? I know it is at least frowned on but what about all those open track events with mostly street cars? They certainly have antifreeze. Isn't that what catch bottles, etc. are for?

i'll drape my car cover over the front clip, that should help. the garage is semi-insulated, the door will be closed and two of the walls are interior so *some* heat seeps in from the house. hopefully a little extra local heat is all i need.

it's not necessarily the track that prohibits glycol, it's the rulebook:

8.11.1. Use of an ethylene glycol (coolant) is prohibited unless specifically allowed by Supplemental Regulations of a specific race event or by permission of the Regional Director. Substitute coolants (e.g. “Water Wetter”) are highly encouraged for all competitors.

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