THSCC Forums

Yeah, I didn't mean to give those guys too much of a hard time. They were doing what they wanted to be doing...taking their street cars out there and getting some more skills in a fairly safe manner. I can say that while not everyone was as fast as they could have been, most seemed predictable and EVERYONE was great about point bys and such when I came up behind them, even though no point bys were required in our group. There was one dude who moved VERY far offline and pointed me by, which I would rather people didn't do, but he at least did it LONG before I got there, so even that wasn't a problem.

And yeah, I was in a fully prepped race car on BFG R1's. My car should definitely be faster through the corners than any of those guys who were not on r-comps. It was a well run day, all in all.

Bernie, did you see the car that hit the wall in Oak Tree? Earlier in the day I had to pull off in south paddock after a small bolt lodged itself under my throttle and wouldn't allow me more than a TINY amount of gas and while I was going back through the paddock to go over to the north paddock I saw the top of the car as it slid and impacted the wall. Saw a pretty decent splash out of the tires, but it still didn't look like he was going fast enough that he did anything more than body damage, so I'm curious if it was worse or not. It was hard to tell from where I was, and I certainly couldn't see what precipitated it. I'm guessing it was a minor mistake compounded by wet grass and a close wall.


--Donnie

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My Blog

got it.


seat time, seat time, seat time.

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............

Donnie I saw that vette, and as you said it was mainly cosmetic, front facia and scratches from the bindings on the tires. He continued to run the rest of the event and was in the rolling start on tuesday.

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

Ah, cool, thanks. No wonder I never noticed it...I didn't expect it to be so mild he was still out there! That's good news.


--Donnie

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My Blog

Yes he was! He had done 3 or 4 laps already and things were working fine. Came into 11 good, hit the brakes, went to setup to turn right and roll on throttle. Instead of turning right, the front left tire just slipped, car skipped over outside gators, right into tire wall, nose first. Buried it in almost to the windshield. 1st session, 1st day, ooopss...

Nose is all scratched up. Hood is really scratched and gouged from wire on tire clusters. Driver front quarter scratched up and bottom might need some glass work. Left headlight cover ripped up. Drivers mirror ripped off during pull out with wrecker. Air dam is shot. Lower valance piece needs some work. Mechanically it checked out just fine. A few good sized strips of duct tape over the cracks and voila !!!

Ran it the rest of the time and never had one issue with tire slippage. Did rolling start on the 2nd day. It was fun.

I'll fix it this winter along with some changes I wanted to do it. Not sure this will be a street car anymore.

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http://www.greywinds.com

nice. pictures honey?

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............

Can someone tell me what exactly the rules were for this "Red Group"? Cause the whole "stick your nose in and see if it sticks" passing behavior I saw at Oak Tree is something I NEVER EVER want to see in a non-race group. I believe Bernie said there were cars out there with no roll protection. WTF?

Heaven forbid when someone tries to execute a pass in an HPDE with no safety precautions, and fails, and someone gets hurt. That will suck.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Do we see the death of a waxer here?

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2002 MCS, 2003 MCS Track Rat, 2003 Generic White Yukon, 2003 BMWk1200rs, 1973 CB350F, 02 996. 08 Cayenne Turbo
http://www.clinehallagency.com

Red group rules were, passing anywhere without a point by. However this was prefaced by saying that courtesy, common sense and awareness would be paramount for these rules to continue to be implemented. And as an adjunct if you were uncomfortable with this then yellow group would be a better choice. As it turned out most folks gave passing signals anyway, and courtesy was the watch word for the group. Proving once again, If you treat people like adults they’ll act like adults. The overall decorum of that red run group was far better than most of the advanced run groups I’ve run with. The most prevalent offense in other venues advanced group is faster cars passing without a point by. This was a non issue because you already know that cars will be passing without the point by. I believe that it’s much more dangerous to expect a car to wait for a point, and have him pass you instead.
It’s probably not for everyone, and it wasn’t meant to be for everyone, but for those who have their sights on racing, it’s a great experience. As for those who choose to do it without roll protection, foolish in my opinion, but their choice. We are all responsible for our own actions, and don’t need a big brother watching over us, JMHO.

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

Which car did the "stick your nose in and see if it sticks" thing? I never saw anyone do that all day, and I certainly didn't do it myself.

I agree 100% with Bernie. I wasn't a fan of the rolling race start idea, and I said before I don't think it would be great to see if replicated at other track days, but in this case it was apparently pulled off by people more interested in preserving their equipment than getting in the lead (or even ahead of someone they shouldn't have been). Oh, and everyone did seem to do a great job of putting themselves in a "qualifying order" that was fairly reasonable. *shrug* I was somewhat of an exception to that, because I was running faster lap times than all but the first two rows of that start (I believe), but I knew I'd be holding up the accelerating Vettes at the green, so I figured I needed to be at the back. Especially since I have a lot of race experience at VIR and didn't mind passing.


--Donnie

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My Blog

Looked like the driver of the video car tried to get by on the inside at Oak Tree.

Don't misinterpret my comments -- Looks like fun, I'd drive in that group any time. And I'm sure you guys had a blast. I just fear for the sustainability of our sport whenever I see a group host something that has "lawsuit" written all over it.

If someone got hurt or killed due to inadequate safety precautions in a "near race" group, I just wonder what the repercussions could be for organizations such as THSCC being able to run events there...

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I agree the video car driver did try to pass in oak tree but was unable to facilitate because of the much lower entry speed and he promptly backed off. Where's the problem???In the Tuesday rolling start I passed the Camero in turn 11 on the inside, he gave me the room I needed and I stayed track right through the entire turn and oak tree as well. No Problems mate!
And I'd guesss that you'd have loved it Mike, they're going to be back in March I think, come out and play.

As a side note two cars sustained minor damage neither one as a result of a passing incident.

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

Yeah, I don't see the problem, either. If he had been sliding his car around and did that, it would be one thing. He took a peak where there was room, couldn't make it happen, and didn't force the issue. Obviously he should have laid back and tried to setup a good run out of Oak Tree, but failing that I don't see that he did anything to endanger anyone. Plus it REALLY seemed like most of these guys knew each other and in some cases knew each other pretty well. Not sure if that's good or bad...but it seemed to work fine.

All that said, this kind of track lapping has a limited life and it's for the reason you stated. I'm not sure it's much more likely to happen in an advanced group or a novice, but someone is going to get killed and it's going to get high profile for one reason or another. I just don't think we're far away from more expensive track events that REQUIRE roll cages built to some reasonable spec.


--Donnie

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My Blog

I certainly can't fault them for making a session fun and unique... as long as they police the level of drivers within the run group, and that all the drivers are well aware of what's going to be happening out there (sounds like it was here.)

Can anyone confirm that these are the guys from the midwest... the ones who are/were going to be the "official" track day provider for Bluegrass?

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Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant

And Bernie... I agree with the "treating adults like adults" sentiment... but that assumes everyone in the run group are adults

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Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant