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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:43 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:32 pm
Posts: 490
Location: Mooresville, NC
steve remchak wrote:
Kevin Harvey wrote:
There was a reason why I liked drag racing...... good lord.


just a simple FYI for your next car Kevin; the less info you provide to the general public, the easier classing your car will become. 8) :lol:



LOL, I agree Steve. That is where I was headed with my "convening authority" question.

I have decided that if I do TT this car, I am just going to tell all of you that it is my wife's stock 01 Cobra convertible, not the modded 99 hardtop. Both are black Mustangs, should be pretty easy to pull over everyone's eyes, right???? :twisted:

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2003 Torch Red Corvette Z06 ST3/TT3 #01

Road Courses: Rock - VIR-F - VIR-N - VIR-S - VIR-P - VIR-G - RRR - CMP - Road Atlanta - CMS - NSS - NCCAR - Mid-Ohio - Watkins Glen
Drag Strips: Red River - Byron - Cordova - Route 66 - Raceway Park - zMAX


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:10 pm
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Location: 'Round the bend, just south of normal
Safety and interior prep notwithstanding, would Kevin's car fit into T1 or T2 or something along those lines?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:45 pm 
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Groovy, baby!

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:14 pm
Posts: 385
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
Short Story: This is one of the best descriptions of a Street Mod
Vehicle I've seen, IMHO, the reason SM is growing more popular.

Long Story:
Our Time Trial Series was designed to be a step up series from
autocross. All the classes from the SCCA National Solo Rules
apply except for the open wheel stuff.

Street Prepaired is the most suitable class for a Track vehicles since it allows all the usual suspension mods and brake cooling. Because of the restrictions in STOCK AX classes, SP is the most logical place to start for a Track vehicle. However, a lot of people will do one or two things to make them illegal in street preapried. Some get into the TT program from doing HPDE events and have never read a rule book. Right Stacy?
The end result is a car not legal for SP or only legal in a catch class like
SPO. Street Mod solves a lot of these problems.

SM (Street Mod) is built on top of SP rules. SM allows most of the modifications people want to do that typically make them illegal in SP: Sub-frame connectors, Big Brake Kits, Wings, Lightened body components, Internal Motor mods, Forced induction, and Motor Swaps.

For your Mustang there are two options:
SM (Street Mod)
SPO wide open mods-high speed potential

Your car could have been legal in T2/ITE/Street Prepaired but for
a few items like the Sub-Frame Connectors, Ported Heads, etc but
it's still close to a Street Perpaired vehicle in speed potential.
Street Mod is the most suitable class that allows this list of mods.

SPO-would be the the next step up. SPO is for vehicles with
higher speed potential.

FYI, SCCA does have classes for V8's : ITE, T1, T2, Street Mod, American
Sedan, and SPO.

Best to call me if you have specific questions, we can review this
line by line.

Does this sould like I'm a pushing SM class over SP?
It's just the reality of what people are driving to the Track.
I can see us splitting up SM back into SM and SM2 if this trend
continues, but for now we got everyone lumped into SM.

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Mark Vitacco
THSCC TT Chairman
mvitacco@bellsouth.net


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:32 pm
Posts: 490
Location: Mooresville, NC
Thanks for the insight, Mark, and thanks to everyone else for their thoughts.

When I eventually get the appropriate safety gear in it, I will be certain to catch someone at the track to give it a once over and go from there.


Kevin

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2003 Torch Red Corvette Z06 ST3/TT3 #01

Road Courses: Rock - VIR-F - VIR-N - VIR-S - VIR-P - VIR-G - RRR - CMP - Road Atlanta - CMS - NSS - NCCAR - Mid-Ohio - Watkins Glen
Drag Strips: Red River - Byron - Cordova - Route 66 - Raceway Park - zMAX


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:42 am 
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I got a SUX2000!
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Location: In the garage, under a big old Mercedes
Kevin Harvey wrote:
There was a reason why I liked drag racing...... good lord.


Kevin, this is going to sound like I'm being a smart ass, but I'm not, I promise.

With drag racing, does the sanctioning body class your car for you? How does classing work in drag racing? Or is there any?

I've only been to a drag strip once, and that was on one of those testing days. If there was any vehicle classing going on, I didn't see it, but it's possible that was because it was just a test day.

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2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:31 am 
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Location: 'Round the bend, just south of normal
Mark Vitacco wrote:
Some get into the TT program from doing HPDE events and have never read a rule book. Right Stacy?


Ouch... that one stung a bit :wink:

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Stacy King
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:01 am 
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Groovy, baby!

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:14 pm
Posts: 385
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
OOPS, I stand corrected: SubFrame Connectors ARE legal in SP
For the longest time that used to disqualify a lot of cars.
In true SCCA fashion, a 6 item list of restrictions govern the use
of subframe connectors. Read them on SCCA.org if interested.
I should have know having just updated the "classing info"
page on timetrials.net.

Looking back to the list of mods:
- ported heads and cam preclude classing in Street Prep.
- May be ok with the fuel tank per udate/backdate allowances.
- crank swap only not allowed under update/backdate because
motors must be swapped as a unit. Backdating to N/A motor
is allowed if offered in that model swapped in as a unit.

I updated the classing info page from Time Trial Info menue item
on timetrials.net. Its a quick and dirty shopping
list of allowed mods per catagory. We also have a couple of classing calculators in the works, one for SP and another for the popular
club racing classes. Should have them ready after we get back from VIR.

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THSCC TT Chairman
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:54 am 
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I err on the side of being stupid
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:15 pm
Posts: 4743
Location: Greenville, NC
Mark Vitacco wrote:
OOPS, I stand corrected: SubFrame Connectors ARE legal in SP


They as long as you abide by the rules on them, the no cross car triangulation is what will get some folks
Quote:
E. Longitudinal (fore-aft) subframe connectors (“SFCs”) are permitted
with the following restrictions:
1. They must only connect previously unconnected boxed frame
rails on unibody vehicles.
2. Each SFC must attach at no more than three points on the
unibody (e.g. front, rear, and one point in between such as a
seat mount brace or rocker box brace).
3. SFCs must be bolted or welded, but welding must be to the
OE subframe stampings, not to the floor pan in between.
4. No cutting of OE subframes or floorpan stampings is permitted.
Drilling is permitted for mounting bolts only.
5. No cross-car/lateral/triangulated connections directly between
the driver’s side and passenger’s side SFCs are permitted.
Connections to OE components such as tunnel braces or
closure panels via bolts are allowed and count as the third
point of attachment. No alteration to the OE components is
permitted.
6. SFCs may not be used to attach other components (including
but not limited to torque arm front mounts or driveshaft
loops) and may serve no other purpose.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:32 pm
Posts: 490
Location: Mooresville, NC
Stacy King wrote:
Mark Vitacco wrote:
Some get into the TT program from doing HPDE events and have never read a rule book. Right Stacy?


Ouch... that one stung a bit :wink:


Heck, that describes me to a "t". I have never made a single modification to my cars based on a "rule book". Everything I have done up to this point was to make the car handle, accelerate or brake better. And the last round of crap I did to the car was to make it more reliable.

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2003 Torch Red Corvette Z06 ST3/TT3 #01

Road Courses: Rock - VIR-F - VIR-N - VIR-S - VIR-P - VIR-G - RRR - CMP - Road Atlanta - CMS - NSS - NCCAR - Mid-Ohio - Watkins Glen
Drag Strips: Red River - Byron - Cordova - Route 66 - Raceway Park - zMAX


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:32 pm
Posts: 490
Location: Mooresville, NC
Karl Shultz wrote:
Kevin Harvey wrote:
There was a reason why I liked drag racing...... good lord.


Kevin, this is going to sound like I'm being a smart ass, but I'm not, I promise.

With drag racing, does the sanctioning body class your car for you? How does classing work in drag racing? Or is there any?

I've only been to a drag strip once, and that was on one of those testing days. If there was any vehicle classing going on, I didn't see it, but it's possible that was because it was just a test day.


Not a smart ass question at all, Karl. You are correct in your assumptions. Drag racing classification for races can be just as technical and tricky and painful as SCCA and others. For test-n-tune days, there are no classes per se, you just need to meet the safety requirements for however fast your car can run. For instance, at most NHRA santioned 1/4 mile tracks convertibles faster than 13.49 have to have a a 4pt roll bar. Hardtops faster than 11.49 have to have a 4pt. The faster you go, the more safety requirements. 1/8 mile tracks generally have looser standards on test-n-tune days because of the slower speeds. Some of the "backwoods" tracks around NC are even less stringent about safety.

As for classification on race weekend, for the events I have entered over the years, once you are registered you head to technical inspection and they look over your car to verify you do not exceed whatever modification limits are in place for the class you chose. If you do exceed something, they can make a recommendation on which class best suits your car. They go on faith that you are not lying about the insides of your motor until the point in which a fellow racer lodges a protest against you. To clear your name, you quite often have to tear down the motor to prove that you are legal. Putting it back together is on your dime, not the protester.

Some classes are full of rules and guidelines. Factory Stock in drag racing is similar to all of the stuff listed in Factory Stock for SCCA. Some of the looser classes where modifications run rampid are classes that are limited by traction or something similar. In an abbreviated summary, the 10.5 Outlaw classes are pretty much only limited by having to run a 10.5" rear drag radial. Everything else goes. Imagine a 1500+hp car on a 10.5" tire. Good, exciting racing for sure!

Other classes that are more open and just as fun to run in are index or bracket classes. In Index Racing, you can do anything you want to the car as long as you are not faster than a set time, say 12.5 or 11.0 or something like that. In that situation, you are basically running heads up against someone else that runs a similar time to you, but neither of you can go faster than your index without getting disqualified. In the Bracket Classes, you have to run what you say you can run - doesn't matter what modifications you have done to the car. I have lined up my 11.33 second Cobra against someone in a 14.0 second daily driver and had them beat me. I was faster, but whereas I ran an 11.38, they may have ran a 14.01 and therefore came closer to their stated time than I.

The funnest classes are True/Wild Street classes of Fun Ford Weekend and National Mustang Racing Association. Your car has to be street legal enough to have a current registration in one of the fifty states. We are talking about everything from a 16 second daily driven sedan to an 8 second capable, parachute toting, big inch 800hp motor, trailer queen -- but still DOT legal and tagged. You have your car looked over, they look for the typical safety items and for a current registration (you have to prove it with your registration and insurance cards -- pulling a tag off your Dad's Buick and slapping it on your car usually won't cut it). You then go on a 30 mile, police escorted cruise on local highways, backroads, neighborhoods, and through stoplights and towns. After you leave for the cruise, you cannot work on your car again. Once back at the track, you have to run three back-to-back-to-back 1/4 mile passes with no cooldown. Your runs are averaged and the closest average to a solid second without going under is the index winner. For instance, an average of 13.2 seconds wins the 13 second index over a 12.99 average. So, the person that wins the 15 second index has just as much bragging rights with their cheap daily driver as the person that won the 9 second index with their barely street legal, 114 octane burning, 50k hot rod. Your car has to run the complete 30 mile cruise and the 3 runs on its own power and without opening the hood. Touch the car and you are disqualified. I had a six dollar part knock me out as the 12 second class winner one year at Route 66 because once I lifted the hood to see what was wrong, I was out. Period.


Kevin

_________________
2003 Torch Red Corvette Z06 ST3/TT3 #01

Road Courses: Rock - VIR-F - VIR-N - VIR-S - VIR-P - VIR-G - RRR - CMP - Road Atlanta - CMS - NSS - NCCAR - Mid-Ohio - Watkins Glen
Drag Strips: Red River - Byron - Cordova - Route 66 - Raceway Park - zMAX


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:22 am 
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Mustangs with IRS are in BP. Along with Factory Fives.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:32 pm
Posts: 490
Location: Mooresville, NC
Cool. I'll have to look through Mark's new updates to make sure exactly where my mods put me.

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2003 Torch Red Corvette Z06 ST3/TT3 #01

Road Courses: Rock - VIR-F - VIR-N - VIR-S - VIR-P - VIR-G - RRR - CMP - Road Atlanta - CMS - NSS - NCCAR - Mid-Ohio - Watkins Glen
Drag Strips: Red River - Byron - Cordova - Route 66 - Raceway Park - zMAX


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:21 pm 
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Groovy, baby!

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:14 pm
Posts: 385
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
Web site is updated. If you need more details on any of the
modifications go to the SCCA links provided for fine print and details.
This is just a "shopping list" of what's allowed in the current rule book by
catagory.
At the bottom of the Vehicle Classing Info Page I've included a chart listing classes in each catagory we plan to support in 2009. Personally, I would Pick the one that most suites your vehicle rather than a wide open catagory that allows a lot more modificatoins than you have.
However, if you really don't care and just want to make mods as you like (and that ok too-plenty of peole are having fun doing just that) Prep or SPO leaves your options wide open.
I would like to see better alignment with SCCA catagories and better competition in the Time Trial providing applicants buy into it. If not, its
still a big sandbox you can plan in and have fun. No body is the loser
in that respect. However, t the potential to have a highly competative series is there.
The cluture is different than what I used to see running AX events with
The club. It's much more layed back in the HPDE/TT program than in
the AX. In a way I wish participants would take classing more seriously
but in the end its your program, so collectively we make it what we want.
The fact is peole are entering this program from running HPDE events
much more so than from autocrossing. Therefore vehicles are modified based on what the indivudual need of the driver and vehicle not someting
in a rule book.

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THSCC TT Chairman
mvitacco@bellsouth.net


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:20 pm 
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Location: Durham
Hey Kevin

HELL OF A BUILD!!!

I was looking at your mods, and it was like stepping into a mustang man's road racing dream.

I just started the TT series with my mustang in the SM class. Come on over to SM so I can catch the draft from your cobra. I promise to point you by 8)

jake

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:37 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:32 pm
Posts: 490
Location: Mooresville, NC
Thanks, Jake, I appreciate the appraisal. All that and I am still slow!!!!

In comparison to some of the guys I know, my car is an amateur. When I start adding carbon fiber hood, trunk lid, doors, roof, fenders and then start install a tubular k-member, 6 pot 14" brakes, coil-overs and torsion diff, I'll be on my way to a dream. LOL, but I'd have to give up thousands of dollars of track time to do all that. I think I need to keep poorer company so my dreams are more realistic.

My "mod" this past weeekend was to fashion up a radiator guard. After removing the AC condensor some months ago, that unprotected $350 LFP radiator has had me concerned. A couple of pieces of BBQ mesh, some black paint and a few zip ties later and it is good to go.

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2003 Torch Red Corvette Z06 ST3/TT3 #01

Road Courses: Rock - VIR-F - VIR-N - VIR-S - VIR-P - VIR-G - RRR - CMP - Road Atlanta - CMS - NSS - NCCAR - Mid-Ohio - Watkins Glen
Drag Strips: Red River - Byron - Cordova - Route 66 - Raceway Park - zMAX


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