THSCC Forums

When race seats are installed will use the SCCA GCR.
Non FIA rated seats must have a means to prevent the drivers head from
hitting the back of the roll bar when the seat back collapes in a hard
rear impact (note "when" not "if"). If the horizontal bar or a rear
bulk head is close to the seat back, like with a Miata or Corvette,
then seat a seperate brace would not be needed. We are just concerned
where the back of the neck or head will hit. FIA seats are designed
not to use braces, non-FIA seats must have some sort of means to
support the seat back.

The safest way to mount a race seat is to tie it into the side roll cage so if
the roll cage moved in, the seat moves with it, but that will not apply
to a car w/o a roll cage or just a roll bar. In that case the stock
seat mouts points are used as that is what they were designed for.

For HPDE purposes or TT, typically the seats are mounted on alluminum
brackets, many are adjustable, that mount to the stock seat mounts
or where the stock seat track mounted to. IF the side of the car was
hit or caved in a good race seat will offer some lateral prtection but
less if the side airbags were eliminated-so we really don't want
to force peole not to use stock seats so long as they allow the harnesses
to be installed and work as designed.

The Tech Guide emphasis is that the Harnesses must be allowed to
work as designed, while trying to leave as much latatude as possible
on how to accomplish it. We can make it simple and mandate FIA
seats-but I would not like to do that for a TIme Trial or HPDE car, unless
there is compelling data that we should do so.

_________________
Mark Vitacco
THSCC TT Chairman
mvitacco@bellsouth.net

Richard-
You are correct that I use the Cobra Imola in my 914, and I fabbed a mounting bracket like Mike described above. It took HOURS to fab the bracket up, trying to take advantage of every 1/8" of available space in there, and curving and notching it to clear everything in those spacious 914 floor pans. I was able to retain the stock Ebrake with a slight modification to the handle (BFH!!) Like you stated, the rear of my seat is on the floor, and the front tips up slightly to clear the crossmember. You're welcome to stop on up and see and sit in it anytime, or I am planning to run the July AX in Sanford if you want to look at it there.
I still remove the bottom cushion for track work to get enough head clearance to the roll bar, but it is surprisingly comfortable. Something else for you to think about is choosing a seat with lower leg bolsters. I orginally had a Racetech 4009 (A beautiful seat, by the way), but the leg bolsters forced my legs to be straight out instead of slightly splayed, which caused some serious gearshift/steering wheel/thigh interference issues.

_________________
Jason Panciera
1999 Porsche 996
1974 Porsche 914 SM2 0 Gone but not forgotten

Oops, doubled up!

_________________
Jason Panciera
1999 Porsche 996
1974 Porsche 914 SM2 0 Gone but not forgotten

One other thing to consider when putting the seat, cage, etc into the car; the ability to easily get out of the car.

Down at CMP they warned the CMC drivers that some would be pulled over after the first practice session. The general thought was to look at the safety equipment. Well, I was one of the ones pulled to the side after exiting practice.

They told me to stay strapped into the car and asked if I wanted to use the door or window (WTF was going on?). I selected the door and then was informed I had 10 seconds to exit the car.

I had never practiced exiting the car in an emergency situation. I was able to get out in 7.8 seconds.

You get 15 seconds if you want to use the window to exit.

_________________
Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Jason,

If I am going to try to call you at work later today to talk in more detail and figure out when I can drop by and try out your seat.

Quick question for now. Do you have the standard size seat or the larger size? A few months ago Ben Thomas brought by his Cobra Suzuka for me to try out. I think it was the standard size and it was a bit too tight. I am seeing different info on actually how much wider their wider version (GT) is. I think I have seen 25mm, 1 inch (close to 25mm) and 50mm. The main Cobra website doesn't list the size of the GT.

Richard

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

It is indeed the Imola "S", which is the larger one. Which also adds to the challenge of mounting it in the car, haha!
Give me a call, we'll set something up!

_________________
Jason Panciera
1999 Porsche 996
1974 Porsche 914 SM2 0 Gone but not forgotten

SCCA Pro Racing requires an exit test be passed. Thanks to not doing the first couple of events last season, though, they never made me take it. You have 15 seconds to exit AND you have to get the master power switch turned off.

You'd think that would be easy in an open top car, but MER uses those Race Tech seats with the big helmet hoop (which I agree is more safe, but I hate them). The helmet hoop interferes with the roll cage bars such that you can't come out the top at all. You have to come out the door/window. That's not so bad if the door opens, but if it were mashed such that it wouldn't open, you'd be really pissed. They require those nets in the center of the car, too, but those do have a release on the dash, so in theory you can release that and go out the passenger window if required.

Their required mounting spot for the master switch is on the roll cage by the passenger window. You can't reach it with that center net in place, and I can barely reach it without it from the seat. But everyone told me that you can just unbelt, go out the door, and run around the car and hit the switch EASILY in 15 seconds. I did a few practice runs without a clock and felt like I could do it fine, too.

Chip Herr set the MX-5 Cup record in something like just under six seconds, but he didn't have a Race Tech seat and thus popped straight out the top. You can reach the switch easily from up there before jumping to the ground, and he's five foot nothing and a hundred and nothing pounds from the sound of it, too.

Pro doesn't require you to have your cool suit or fresh air or even radio connected for their test. Their theory is that in an actual emergency you'd just forget all that shit and it would rip as you went out anyway. So why take a chance on someone tearing that stuff up in a test.

I do suggest making sure one can exit your car a multitude of ways. You will uncover possibly gotchas with your window net not wanting to release quickly or possible points you can get hung up on things.


--Donnie

I took a second to run through a procedure....steering wheel, window net, harness, door and out. We did not have to kill the power to the car. Before every weekend, I make sure that the side net release is functional too.

I need to practice getting out the window. The tricky part is the HANS getting caught on everything.

Oh yes, one final point, don't practice in the garage or driveway...concrete hurts. It was advice given to me by another driver

_________________
Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

I can just imagine the neighbors watching as you have a mattress in the driveway, your race car parked next to it, you in full race gear (helmet, hans, etc.) and you practicing getting out of the car as fast as you can.

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

ok, I actually lol'd at this

_________________
Marty Howard
2011 NASA SE Factory Five Challenge Champion
Track Events Logistics Coordinator - TZC/THSCC
2007 Factory Five Challenge Car.
http://www.mh-motorsports.com

Ditto Frank's comments. Frank and I got a real DEAL on the bottom-mount versions, which were obviously being phased out in favor of the newer side-mounts. I think we paid below $250 per seat with free shipping.

Just got this via email from LTB Motorsports:
MOMO 5% DISCOUNT COUPON
Use coupon code MOMO5 at checkout and receive 5% discount on all MOMO products, valid till the end of July 2008.

_________________
Brad

Update...

I visited Jason to both look at how he mounted his seat in his 914 as well as test out his Cobra Imola. Long story short, while the seat is supposed to be the wide version, I am not sure it is. I could not slide all the way back into the seat (to narrow for my hips). Jason had purchased his at CDOC at VIR. I called CDOC a few minutes ago to see if they had them in stock so I could sit in one to make sure the "wide" version really is wide enough for me. Turns out CDOC no longer carries Cobra seats.

So I am back to square one. The Momo "Start 2007" or "Super Cup XL" look like good prospects. I am not going to buy a composite seat without sitting in one. Especially since the two I have already sat in are not a good fit. Using the "block" method (sit on bench, slide two large blocks up to your hips until they are are snug, get up and measure distance between blocks) to measure my hips, I measure right at 16". The "Start 2007" says it is 17.1" wide, but the LTB website says they recommend it up to those with a 36" waist. I am more 38-40" waist. The "Super Cup" is 14.8" wide and the "Super Cup XL" is 16.9" wide. LTB says regular for 36" and under waist and XL for larger than 36". With the Super Cup XL supposedly actually smaller than the "Start 2007". Waist does not equal hip measurement so I am confused as to what might actually fit.

So I am wondering if anyone who as a Momo seat will let me sit in it. Better yet borrow it to see if it also fits in the 914?!?! The seat fitment for a 914 is a matter of fractions of inches due to high side and center tunnels as well as unique e-brake handle placement. Help!!

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

You're certainly welcome to test sit mine. IIRC that's how Brad would up with his ...
Not sure what's convienent for you, but we're off Carpenter Pond Rd in Raleigh (Durham County) about two miles southwest of NC98.

Frank

Update...

I tried out Frank's seat a day or two after my last post. It is a 2004 bottom mount model. Assuming that they haven't significantly changed the dimensions with the new models, the "Start" is not going to fit for me. It measures at about 15" at the hip and I need 16".

I think there is a typo on the published info in the US for the Start (shows it as 17" wide). It seems that the US Momo site doesn't give you much info, but if you look at the main Italian Momo site, you can find a PDF product catalog that lists the actual size as around 16" and I think that is an exterior dimension which seems to make the interior hip dimention something less than 16". The US matches the Italian info except for the that 16" vs. 17"width info. I am trusting the factory PDF catalog over the US site sizing info.

I am now back looking at inexpensive FIA seats with the Momo Super Cup XL being the next on my list. Does anyone have that seat?

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

I now have a Momo Super Cup XL. I fit in it, and it fits (very tight) in the car.

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.