THSCC Forums

135i march 2008, i believe i have found my new p-car harrassment tool.

Hey, the other CGT thread went 25 replies...let's beat it!

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Jason Panciera
1999 Porsche 996
1974 Porsche 914 SM2 0 Gone but not forgotten

If you actually came out to an autocross, we could make that happen.

:fire:

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Nov. 11. Sanford. I'm there.

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Jason Panciera
1999 Porsche 996
1974 Porsche 914 SM2 0 Gone but not forgotten

Jason just to help getting to 25 posts here's my take on the CGT wreck. I posted this on the corvette forum because they were carring on about the self tech inspection done on the car. Which in my mind was irrelevent, the car was in good condition Just before it hit the wall. Kind of like mine was before I hit the pole.....It was my fault, plain and simple, just as it was the CGT's drivers fault plain and simple.
Here's the post from the vette forum.


The sad fact of the matter is, the folks who were running the Hpde were remiss in the fact that they left someone on the track when he had spun FOUR times that day. That was a clear indication he was not in control. Had they removed him from the track after the second spin, he'd be alive today. Most organizers have some limit on the number of offs and spins. I agree the track and the other car added to the mix but the driver screwed up four times in one day and to me thats out of control.
If that situation occurs, a time out for the rest of the day is in order, and upon return to the track additional instruction should be given. From what I've read thats where everything could have been avoided.
IMHO

THSCC/TZC rule is two uncontrolled offs (spins) and you are parked for the rest of the day. I agree with this rule 100%.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

Bernie, thanks for your help, haha!

I have to think that even 2 uncontrolled offs before being parked for the day is a little generous.

What I fear with the super fast cars we're seeing more and more of in the hands of noobs, is that we're going to start losing instructors. I wouldn't want to get in a CGT, GT500, GT2 turbo, etc.
What's your take, Vincent? Would you ever refuse to instruct a green or even blue student in one of those type cars?

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Jason Panciera
1999 Porsche 996
1974 Porsche 914 SM2 0 Gone but not forgotten

oh hell, here comes the Z06 argument all over again. sorry Jason but it is the driver not the car. i remember a NASA event where a dude plastered the aarmco in hogpen whilst zooming along in a civic.

Who is to say the guy was a noob? He may have been an instructor.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

I agree completely with you that it is the driver and not the car, but you have to agree that a green driver in a 500 hp car is more likely to get in over his head than a guy in a Miata. That's all I have to say on that.

Have we hit 26 posts yet?

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Jason Panciera
1999 Porsche 996
1974 Porsche 914 SM2 0 Gone but not forgotten

I didn't mean to imply that I thought the guy in the C-GT was a noob, I was just making a general comment about the latest supercars. And trying to boost the post count on this truly unnecesary, waste of time thread.

There, that was 25. I'm satisfied now.

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Jason Panciera
1999 Porsche 996
1974 Porsche 914 SM2 0 Gone but not forgotten

could not disagree more with that line of thinking. likely? no. possible? of course. good judgement does not have a hp limitation.

i remember a similar discussion i had while at RRR this past june. it is stereotypical that noobies in high hp cars are a menace. of course given the affordability of the Z06 in supercar context, the belief commonly held is that older affluent no driving guido types in corvettes will be the downfall of hpdes. to further cement the arguement, it is a known fact that gold chain wearing bare chested macho types buy more corvettes than any other marque out there.

it is a breath of fresh air to attend a PCA function where the machismo is kept in check.

#26?

Are you freakin nuts??? I saw more gold chains and bare chests at the PCA than I ever saw at the NCM event. And how many times did you and Kevin come in after a session at the PCA event and bitch about the Porsche's that wouldn't let you pass because you were in a BMW and Kevin in his Miata. The statement "it is a breath of fresh air to attend a PCA function where the machismo is kept in check." was a joke, right??

As a matter of fact my very first student was a 17 year old in a Shelby Mustang GT 500. I'll admit being my first time I was a little nervous before meeting the student. After hearing him say that he "doesn't like drag racing", and "I'm here to learn how to drive", my mind was at ease. Having the right attitude will take you a long way, and this guy even at 17 years old had just that.



The student's attitude (not so much the capabilities of the car) is most important to me. Also it is not too difficult after you've done this for a while to gauge how a student will perform in just a few laps. I pretty much know right away if he/she is just one corner away from doing something stupid that could affect both of us. Of course something could happen on the very first lap, but that is a level of risk I'm willing to take.

So to answer your question more directly, no. I would not refuse (initially) to instruct a noob in a super car. However all instructors reserve the right to get out of the car if (as stated above) I'm not comfortable with the students actions.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

Steve actually sounds like he is making a serious arguement. You can kill yourself with any hp car but talk to the wrecker drivers at VIR and they will tell you tons of amazing stories of mainly high hp cars, like Vipers ending up OVER the fence near 4 and 5 at full course. Miata's rear ends don't break loose as they come out of 7 and then spin into the tire walls on the left.

I personally, of course I am an insurance agent, would have never felt comfortable going to the track my first time in any thing faster than my car.

My new motorcycle will go 160 though!! (I won't ever get it there but just wanted to show my machisimo)

Machisimo in check at PCA, that's funny, I don't care who you are.

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2002 MCS, 2003 MCS Track Rat, 2003 Generic White Yukon, 2003 BMWk1200rs, 1973 CB350F, 02 996. 08 Cayenne Turbo
http://www.clinehallagency.com