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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:58 am 
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David Teague wrote:
When I was working for NASA I even said that exact thing to someone who as asking about getting thier son on track who had never auto-x'd or been on track and was asking Chris Cobetto and I if he though Nasa would be a good place to start. I told him that he should have no issues, but that finding a Smaller Program like Thscc to run with before doing his first NASA event would not be a bad thing at all, even Cobetto agreed with that.


I would agree 100% with this. I had run a number of HPDE's with various groups , had been to Topeka for the AX championships 3 times and was still shocked when I pulled in for my first NASA event last February.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:10 am 
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I err on the side of being stupid
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jimpastorius wrote:
I would agree 100% with this. I had run a number of HPDE's with various groups , had been to Topeka for the AX championships 3 times and was still shocked when I pulled in for my first NASA event last February.


X 2

Its like the freakin' circus

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:52 pm 
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Stacy King wrote:

The whole point of the DE is to take away that stupidity... to give you the tools NOT to do something stupid. Green group's main purpose is to get you comfortable on track. It's NOT a step up from XX-cross... it's just different....

Your autocross and rallycross experience will certainly lessen the learning curve, but there's also a point where your techniques will translate into things you shouldn't do on track. I imagine there's a point where your auto & rally-cross habits will start to make that learning curve more severe (maybe some others can attest to the validity of that or not, I dunno).


I hope you understand where I'm coming from:
#1... I'd rather see you spend $300 for a full weekend with us then $360 for 4 separate 2-hour blocks without any instruction on a circuit that WILL bite back if you get in over your head.

#2... I just don't like feeding the NASA machine ;)


Let me weigh in on this deal. Stacy has been outlining the THSCC HPDE program very well. Talk to anyone who has run with us or, better yet, Instructed with us. Our program receives the highest reviews from 99.9% of the participants.

It is what it is: DRIVER'S ED!! We structure our program to offer a FUN, SAFE weekend to drivers at ALL ability levels. We consistently stress on-track safety and courtesy, and maintain the finest group of instructors available anywhere, IMO. Careless, stupid driving is not tolerated, and no one is out on-track alone without being qualified by an instructor.

Having said that, there's room for spirited, competitive driving in the higher groups. But this is only possible because, with the occasional exception, folks who run with us are disciplined enough to stay within the limits, and understand that "it ain't racin'". The respect drivers have for each other on the track in the classroom is obvious. And drivers in the higher groups develop familiarity and confidence in each other that allows for some real dicing on-track while keeping things safe.

Because we have this tiered structure based on experience and assessed driving ability, lots of folks are quite happy to stay within the HPDE format---not everyone has aspirations to go wheel-to-wheel racing. Some very proficient drivers, ex-club racers included, use our program to accumulate seat time, work on technique, or just give back to the sport.

Every organization has it's mission in life. Programs such as NASA, Chin, etc. are in the business of making money. They run under a much different set of priorities, and that's OK.

THSCC/TZC has no aspirations to get into the for-profit track-day business. Our program was developed to offer CLUB MEMBERS and car junkies a venue to develop their driving skills and run on some of the nicest tracks in the country. We are organized in a similar way to the BMW, PCA, Alfa and other marque club driving schools. It's a proven model that results in SAFE events that are under control to the best of our ability.

To that end, we're successful, generate enough revenue for the Club to keep our equipment updated, and provide a safe driving environment for those who want to just have fun, or those who will eventually take it to the club racing level.

Like I said, "It is what it is." And it's a BARGAIN... Especially for us old guys!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:31 pm 
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Brad, for the traditional weekend events i believe THSCC is and always will be a strong and viable enterprise. i have some question regarding the midweek events however. the average track junkie that runs midweek events is an individual that will be shopping for the greatest amount of track time for the dollar. IMO the lapping day format better serves the midweek participant. the Traquest format (Chin) has shown to be popular for those that have the time and the discretionary income to run a Tuesday/Wednesday event as far as i can tell. there should be a way that THSCC can reap the benefits of such an event while still running a first class show. unfortunately, 60 to 75 minutes a day may not be the answer given a midweek event. i have to wonder how well that group that did the one day midweek recently fared. sorry i can't remember their name, but i remember they were short of attendees very close to their scheduled date. i seem to remember they wanted about $275 for the day and offered about 75 minutes of track time. personally, i never gave them a second thought.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:17 am 
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steve remchak wrote:
Brad, for the traditional weekend events i believe THSCC is and always will be a strong and viable enterprise. i have some question regarding the midweek events however. the average track junkie that runs midweek events is an individual that will be shopping for the greatest amount of track time for the dollar. IMO the lapping day format better serves the midweek participant. the Traquest format (Chin) has shown to be popular for those that have the time and the discretionary income to run a Tuesday/Wednesday event as far as i can tell. there should be a way that THSCC can reap the benefits of such an event while still running a first class show. unfortunately, 60 to 75 minutes a day may not be the answer given a midweek event. i have to wonder how well that group that did the one day midweek recently fared. sorry i can't remember their name, but i remember they were short of attendees very close to their scheduled date. i seem to remember they wanted about $275 for the day and offered about 75 minutes of track time. personally, i never gave them a second thought.


We realize the weekday event is a risk. But right now its the only way for us to run OUR event on Full Course when it isn't bone-chilling cold. We certainly don't want to reinvent our wheel if we don't have to. Part of our hope, is that for everyone who won't do a weekday event, there will be someone else who can't do a weekend event to take their place... get some new blood in on the action.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:52 pm 
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I hate working the course at autox and I must tell you about it, often.

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MikeWhitney wrote:
- THSCC has been in existence for 40+ years because we do a lot of pre-planning and contingency and just plain don't take a lot of risks. It helps that there are a lot of smart people helping run the show here. BMWCCA seems to be the only organization I have run with which is even more conservative than THSCC.


That sums it up in a nutshell. I'm on a few other forums and the opinion of others is just that. THSCC has well run events, better structure for students, more class time, typically stay on time and provide a safer atmosphere.

I've run with THSCC, NASA-SE, NASA-MA, PCA-CE, PCA-FSR, and Chin. Each has strengths that they play towards and so they should. For the new student entering DE I would recommend they start with THSCC. Some might consider it more stringent, or less seat time, or whatever. It has more structure and that is what the new driver needs to get started. I would also add that I would choose Roebling Road as your first track.

No need to get pissed Stacy. You guys run an excellent program. You can't compete with NASA unless you try to be NASA. Don't! We already have them for the everything-in-a-weekend event. You guys have built a reputation that stands up to the test. Keep up the good work and keep on moving forward. :thumbsup: :toast:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:21 pm 
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JFC, all I did was post the priliminary track schedule for 2008 and look what
this morfed into?


In case anyone did not notice we updated the scheulde this week
help Kevin at VIR work in a NASCAR practice day we will run
Wed/Thurs INSTEAD of Tues/Wed.

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Last edited by Mark Vitacco on Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:22 pm 
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Mark Vitacco wrote:
JFC, all I did was post the priliminary track schedule for 2008 and look what
this morfed into?


:twisted:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:25 pm 
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Mark Vitacco wrote:
JFC, all I did was post the priliminary track schedule for 2008 and look what
this morfed into?


Good reasons to choose THZ/THSCC events over other options :D ?

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