2008 THSCC-TZC Proposed Schedle

Mark Vitacco · **Posted:** Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:06 pm

Greetings: We have contracts pending on the following dates:

Feb 9- 10
Sat/Sun
VIR
Full
HPDE & TT

April 5-6
Sat/Sun
VIR
North
HPDE & TT

May 28-29
[b]Wed/Thur/b]
VIR
Full
HPDE & TT

June 20-21-22
Fri/Sat/Sun
CMP
Inst.Clinic/Lap HPDE & TT

Oct. 4-5
Sat/Sun
NCS
HPDE & TT

CosbyWood · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:50 am

Ok, so on the dates for VIR Full, has there been any talks about possibly getting Patriot for those non daring souls as well? Maybe get a Circuit-X going at the same time as the TT & HPDE's?

I for one would love to go back for a few more laps on Patriot to calm my nerves a little more and to start getting the claws embedded further in me for the high speed driving that would propel me into full track action. :twisted:

I'm just not there yet.

If that course isn't being used on those days, and if we can drum up enough interest in the additional event to hold it, should we do it?

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:53 pm

CosbyWood wrote:

Ok, so on the dates for VIR Full, has there been any talks about possibly getting Patriot for those non daring souls as well? Maybe get a Circuit-X going at the same time as the TT & HPDE's?

I for one would love to go back for a few more laps on Patriot to calm my nerves a little more and to start getting the claws embedded further in me for the high speed driving that would propel me into full track action. :twisted:

I'm just not there yet.

If that course isn't being used on those days, and if we can drum up enough interest in the additional event to hold it, should we do it?

I would like a Patriot course event again too simply because I actually enjoy the challenge of the course since it is extremely technical. I've driven full course so many times that, for some reason, I'm not as interested in doing an HPDE event on it recently -- perhaps time away will rekindle the desire. South course is a lot fun too imo. I guess I'm in the minority on these views though.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:07 pm

CosbyWood wrote:

Ok, so on the dates for VIR Full, has there been any talks about possibly getting Patriot for those non daring souls as well? Maybe get a Circuit-X going at the same time as the TT & HPDE's?

I for one would love to go back for a few more laps on Patriot to calm my nerves a little more and to start getting the claws embedded further in me for the high speed driving that would propel me into full track action. :twisted:

I'm just not there yet.

If that course isn't being used on those days, and if we can drum up enough interest in the additional event to hold it, should we do it?

Check out the NASA schedule for your Patriot Course needs. If my memory serves me right, they have a hard time making a go of the Patriot course when they have over 500 competitors showing up for the weekend.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:25 pm

I think the main issue with clubs renting Patriot is that VIR has it priced too high relative to the number of drivers a club can fit into an event on it (i.e. not too many cars can fit per run group). Hence it sits empty most of the time. It seems like there must be a better way for them to make use of it.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:54 pm

I dont understand the love affair with Patriot. IIRC, there are more "hard" objects on Patriot than the rest of VIR.

Just jump in the fire.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:00 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

I dont understand the love affair with Patriot. IIRC, there are more "hard" objects on Patriot than the rest of VIR.

Just jump in the fire.

Remember the very first lap of the first group back at the THSCC Patriot event back in 2004? I think it was a Miata that hit the Armco on the back portion of the course. It definitely has a couple of spots that probably aren't respected as much as they should be such as the just over the hill from the pits where lifting can provide a visit to the Armco on the right. However, VIR full has some potential offs that many have fallen victim too and at MUCH higher speeds -- South Bend lift/spin/Armco on left, enough so that VIR moved it back but still not enough; Hog Pen lift/spin/hit pit in Armco, etc... Losing it in the uphill esses at over 100mph likely isn't going to be much fun either as a number of cars have found out this year...especially now that VIR moved the Armco CLOSER to the track due to the condos.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:02 pm

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

I think the main issue with clubs renting Patriot is that VIR has it priced too high relative to the number of drivers a club can fit into an event on it (i.e. not too many cars can fit per run group). Hence it sits empty most of the time. It seems like there must be a better way for them to make use of it.

It seems to me that VIR "didn't get the memo" on things like this. Some money for something has to better than nothing. Depending on the venue, the garage spaces are mostly empty as well, which is due to them being overpriced IMO.

CosbyWood · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:14 pm

NASA has two events on Patriot next year at the moment. John is trying to shoot for an additional two to happen as well, but isn't sure if it will fly. That's the reason why I asked. If we can get something going during that time as well, then it would be fun for those of us who like the track, but aren't ready to jump into the track life just yet. If it's something where we can partner with NASA for some CircuitX action during those dates, maybe that would work.

As for the cost and the run groups, it was $90 for 2 hours of continuous timed runs. 20 drivers per group, and 4 groups. The only drawback was no hot lapping. After about 30 minutes, most of the other drivers bailed and left the track to be run by 6 to 9 people. That was my first introduction to a track event even though it wasn't a full track event and it had a lot of appeal to me. I was able to run at higher speeds than at an autocross, I didn't have to go wheel to wheel, and I could jump on and off when I wanted to. I would love to do that a few more times and get more confident before I consider doing a full event. If we as a club could get some interest in this kind of thing, then it could potentially help the club's profit, and help introduce more individuals like myself into the track life.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:36 pm

CosbyWood wrote:

As for the cost and the run groups, it was $90 for 2 hours of continuous timed runs. 20 drivers per group, and 4 groups. The only drawback was no hot lapping. After about 30 minutes, most of the other drivers bailed and left the track to be run by 6 to 9 people. That was my first introduction to a track event even though it wasn't a full track event and it had a lot of appeal to me. I was able to run at higher speeds than at an autocross, I didn't have to go wheel to wheel, and I could jump on and off when I wanted to. I would love to do that a few more times and get more confident before I consider doing a full event. If we as a club could get some interest in this kind of thing, then it could potentially help the club's profit, and help introduce more individuals like myself into the track life.

I dont see the hang up with just doing a HPDE. You DONT go wheel to wheel. I think you would understand it more if you came and and saw what goes into a THSCC HPDE.

ALSO turning on the timer puts you into a WHOLE new realm of insurance/safety stuff. I dont know how NASA does what they do on that.

Cos, your best bet is to try to get the ear of Mark Vittaco (he does not frequent these boards).

Stacy King · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:20 pm

CosbyWood wrote:

Ok, so on the dates for VIR Full, has there been any talks about possibly getting Patriot for those non daring souls as well? Maybe get a Circuit-X going at the same time as the TT & HPDE's?

I for one would love to go back for a few more laps on Patriot to calm my nerves a little more and to start getting the claws embedded further in me for the high speed driving that would propel me into full track action. :twisted:

I'm just not there yet.

If that course isn't being used on those days, and if we can drum up enough interest in the additional event to hold it, should we do it?

Cosby... Ryan is right, I think you might be missing the point of the DE. Of course, if you're only experience is attending a NASA event, then I can understand why... but I digress

The way our DE's are structured, you'll get the experience as you're out there driving with an instructor in the car. They'll help you build your confidence without any pressure. We don't just throw you out there on your own. Add to that the world class classroom instruction included with your entry fee from either Ron Spencer, Karl Shultz, or Chuck Hawks.

As was stated, Patriot course is too expensive for what it is. And yes, when we ran a DE there after it first opened, we had a much higher percentage of offs resulting in impacts than we ever had before (or since).

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

Ryan Holton wrote:

I dont see the hang up with just doing a HPDE. You DONT go wheel to wheel. I think you would understand it more if you came and and saw what goes into a THSCC HPDE.

x2 - THZ/THSCC will be getting my track money before anyone else next year. Even at The Rock it was easy to manage the traffic, and I never felt like I couldn't find running room on my own.

CosbyWood · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:13 pm

Ok. So maybe my description wasn't the best. I didn't mean wheel to wheel like F1 or NASCAR, but I meant I 40 traffic on steroids. The structure and the learning is wonderful. I've heard about it and know that it's a good thing. Here is my hang up at the moment. If somehow I catch up to someone (highly unlikly but just thinking of worst case scenario), then I have to wait until everyone is happy and safe for me to continue around. At present, that doesn't appeal to me. I've got no problem with someone catching and passing me as I'll gladly yield to them. And I've got no problem with following the rules and waiting till I'm told to pass, but I would rather just go and stop when I choose in a slightly more controled atmosphere. Also, I did see a few offs on the uphill esses that didn't look appealing to me. That's something else that I'm just not ready for. A car's a car, but I'm not ready to make mine dispensable. :wink:

I guess I'll just work with John and see if we can increase the Circuit-X's this year to 4 with NASA. That should hold me over and give me enough of a push to make the jump the following year to a real track event. Thanks.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Well, a "real" track event is a whole lot more expensive than a Patriot Course CircuitX. More brakes, more tires, more entry fees, more gas, a lot more time spent at the track, people on the track with you who could potentially do something really stupid right in front of or behind you, etc. You also have to sit through those boring classroom sessions and carry around ballast. :wink:

I don't think Cosby is "missing the point" here, I think he just doesn't want to be involved with all the risk and cost that's associated with a "real" track event. I like playing on Patriot Course, but I also like to do "real" track events. I've been trying to talk Cosby into a regular HPDE, but so far, no good.

edit: didn't see Cosby's post directly above mine until after I posted this

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:32 pm

Yall justify it however you want. I dont see a dimes worth a difference between the two.

IMHO, turning the timer on brings the red mist on for folks who are least equipped to handle it. X10 more dangerous than traffic at a HPDE, IMHO

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