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 Post subject: New HPDE Drill
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:28 am 
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A couple of things that I need to learn and I thought maybe we could incorporate this one into the "red" group.

Bump drafting: When the cars are equally prepared to gain good qualifying spots, bump drafting is totally accepted.

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 Post subject: Re: New HPDE Drill
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:31 am 
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jimpastorius wrote:
A couple of things that I need to learn and I thought maybe we could incorporate this one into the "red" group.

Bump drafting: When the cars are equally prepared to gain good qualifying spots, bump drafting is totally accepted.


Bump drafting is soooo Nascar.

Chrome Horn Management is more HPDE like.

Is the purple people eater gonna make it to CMP?

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 Post subject: Re: New HPDE Drill
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:51 am 
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jimpastorius wrote:
Bump drafting: When the cars are equally prepared to gain good qualifying spots, bump drafting is totally accepted.


or just drafting in general :wink:

don't freak out when there is a car 1 inch off your bumper going down the straight, they're just trying to catch a tow...and when he waits til the last second to pop out to pass, they're just trying to stay in your draft as long as possible...

perfect topics for advanced DE students :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: New HPDE Drill
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:54 am 
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Ryan Holton wrote:

Bump drafting is soooo Nascar.

Chrome Horn Management is more HPDE like.

Is the purple people eater gonna make it to CMP?


We can give it try this weekend...when you qualify in the first group for TT it will be are dirty little secret.

Actually drafting is pretty important. That was the only way I stayed out in front during the final lap of Sunday's race. I was able to catch a draft off of a Corvette coming out of hog pen.

It appears Barney will be coming to CMP. I have him running. But it might be a short weekend.

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 Post subject: Re: New HPDE Drill
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:57 am 
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jimpastorius wrote:
We can give it try this weekend...when you qualify in the first group for TT it will be are dirty little secret.


That's funny. The only way I will make 1st group in the TT is if you guys throw a bunch of cones out on the straights or you lend me about 100 hp.

Glad to hear you are coming out. I wanna hear some war stories.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:43 am 
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Unfortunately, bump drafting does not work so well with my car...drafting does. When I used to have the CRX...that was a different story...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:38 pm 
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Jeff, how the GRM Ultimate track car turn out?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:13 pm 
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Patrice,

It went well. Some serious cars showed up for the thing. Fastest 1:28 - Slowest 1:54 for lap times. I did a little write up on another board that I will copy below...


Well the 1st GRM Ultimate Track Car Challenge has come and gone. I have to say that it seemed to be nothing but a big success from my standpoint. The event was well run and organized, no doubt from the efforts from the GRM staff, and Jon Felton and the NASA crew. Several manufacturers ponied up some nice prizes for those fortunate enough to be in the top three in class.


Speaking of winners, congrats go out to both John Whitaker and Chris Drabouski for winning their respective classes. I think all the fellow sandboxers had a pretty good day as far as reliability and any other issues went, which was not true for several others. The attrition throughout the day was interesting to see.

As for the event itself, it probably could not have run much smoother. I had some worries going into the thing about weather some folks might act like jerks, or get to red misting real bad. The speed differential in cars was also a concern…26 seconds from fastest to slowest as it turned out. I chose to wait and see before making any judgements and was pleasantly surprised. Everyone’s conduct on track was really good from my perspective. Some folks in the faster cars choose to have a cool down lap in front of me right after they blasted by on the front straight, but it was no big deal, because there was plenty of opportunity for clear laps in each session. After each session, the cars were gridded by time, so generally traffic was not a big issue as the day went on.


There was simply some serious hardware that showed up for this thing, and horsepower seemed to be the name of the game. It was frightening to see many seconds just slip away as cars got real small in front of me on the front straight. Grassroots wanted this to be a showcase of trackday cars that turn up at DE events regularly, but honestly, I have never shared the track with so many rocket ships at once. What was the fastest time? Tommy Archer ran a 1:28.4 on the North course in the Competition Coupe…holy crap, give that man the BMF wallet! There were 12 cars that ran under 1:40 as well.


So how did I do? My best official lap was a 1:43.2 for the timed sessions, which was a personal best for anything I have driven around that joint. That was good enough for 20th overall (out of 36) and 10th in class (out of 18 ). The car had lots of new stuff in it as well as new (different) tires. For the most part, the car drove like total ass and we chased it with adjustments all day. My good friend Alan was crew chief and coach for the day and he helped me stay motivated and we learned some things and documented them about the car. Basically in the first warm-up session the car was wicked loose, especially on right hand turns. We attacked it pretty aggressively with a combination of jacking some cross-weight into the car, shock adjustments, and air pressure adjustments. The car got better throughout the day, but unfortunately the track seemed to get slower and slower as it heated up. So the times really did not come down in any significant way. Actually, I ran about .8s quicker in the warm-up when the car was at it’s worst. So, I am convinced that the track got worse from then on.


The other thing that I fought with was the brakes. The new rear end got some nice upgraded Wilwood calipers and larger rotors compared to the RX-7 stuff that was on the other axle. Well, I never thought that brakes could work too well, but they do. The rear is real easy to lock up and I ran my balance bar to the max for front bias to compensate. It was still touchy but manageable most of the time. Looks like a M/C resize is going to be in order there. Too bad I did not have a chance to sort anything before hand, because I am fairly sure there might have been a couple of more seconds to be had in an earlier session. I am not making excuses, we did the best with what we had and I am happy about that. On the positive side of things, the new rear end works great. The TRD LSD seems to work well, and the new gearing is awesome. Now I can keep my foot in it all the way down the front straight till time to hit the brakes. It also still seems to pull just as hard as it did before. I do find myself using more gears than before in a lap, but that is probably a good thing. All in all, I was happy to be a part of it, but was a little disappointed that I did not bring a better knife to the fight…a dull blade will lose every time.


Based on the entries for this event, and how well this one went off, this might become a regular thing kind of like the $200x challenge. It will probably alternate between east and west coast tracks of it does continue. Let’s hope it does.


Of course no report is worth anything without video…so here is some from the 2nd session of the day. I only took video for a couple of sessions, and this one seemed the most interesting. I think that I may have worn out my steering wheel on Friday…


http://www.project-seven.goof.com/videos/GRMUTCC.wmv

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:23 pm 
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Here is a link to the final results...

http://www.nasaracing.net/VIR_July_07/g ... 0Grid.html

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:27 pm 
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Well... I say...

Have at it, but it's absolutely of no use 'tracking' except for the thrill, or perhaps practice for actual real racing, if you got the balls to try that out... for real racing it's different, as it can catch you up from way back, or pass an opponent...

I know about drafting and in particular bump drafting quite well, to include it's logical extension, 'push' drafting, having done as much as some NASCAR drivers back before they 'discovered' it... including all the way around Charlotte from NASCAR 2 to T1, including through the banking... and that was with three of us together at the same time... let's see the good 'ol boys try that out some time... ;)

I can also tell you from personal experience that there can be consequences as I was probably the first to go on his head while doing it, and that was from a dead square hit... there were other forces at work...

As for doing it at an HPDE, a fellow 'instructor' wanted to do it at the PCA event at Charlotte... I was game and started to motion him on, but for reasons I won't go into I choose to wave him off... at a subsequent VIR event where things were somewhat 'looser', no other cars were around and it being VIR where the safety factor was as good as it gets... the same driver got on my fanny and I waved him on... one good square bump, no problem... being somewhat faster he decided to give me a second bump as he pulled out to pass... the hit being off center, was... well let's just say not very 'elegant'... this guy is an experienced SM racer so he should know his stuff... I asked him later WTF he was thinking, or was it just poor judgement... he replied he thought it was no big deal to bump off center... I asked if he'd ever been on his head... he said no... I told him that if he keeps that up he or his 'pushee' buddy will get to try it out eventually...

Ya'll let me know if you decide to try it out... I'm game IF you have a clue as to what you're doing, where to do it, when to do it and what to do it with...

And that's the name of that tune...

Steve 'BTDTJTBTS' Coleman


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:37 pm 
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Steve,
Are you talking about syncronized roll overs in Le Rollover Cars? :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:36 am 
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First, a lil housekeeping for my post of Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:27 pm... dang forums where one can't edit their posts... arrrggghhhh!!!

Acros are sometimes cryptic enough w/o an incorrect character to confuse things... or perhaps a deliberate 'alternate' take on one that is generally known jes to give folks something to chew on... a ploy I may have been known for at times, but this ain't one of them...

So... please insert a 'G' in lieu of the bogus 'J'... the correct acro being 'BTDTGTBTS... musta been thinking of the 'J' in 'OCTJM... ICBW...' sorry for any confusion or wasted effort trying to decipher it... ;)

Now for the serious...

George Bright wrote:
Steve,
Are you talking about synchronized [sic] roll overs in Le Rollover Cars? :lol:

George... you're in the ball park, but not quite spot on... will try to get back to you with the true history behind the (an) infamous 'synched' maneuver... and some more 'bump' drafting chronicles...

Later...

Steve 'who loves them gaggles of drafters... bumpers... & pushers...' Coleman


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 Post subject: Re: New HPDE Drill
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:12 pm 
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I hate working the course at autox and I must tell you about it, often.

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jimpastorius wrote:
A couple of things that I need to learn and I thought maybe we could incorporate this one into the "red" group.

Bump drafting: When the cars are equally prepared to gain good qualifying spots, bump drafting is totally accepted.


I'm sure your CMC and AI / AIX fellow drivers will be more than happy to give you a taste of it if you get in their way... There's always entry level race groups under the NASCAR umbrella if you like bumping into things. Or Spec Miata if you like bumping into anything from any angle...

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 Post subject: Re: New HPDE Drill
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:26 am 
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Graham Jagger wrote:
jimpastorius wrote:
A couple of things that I need to learn and I thought maybe we could incorporate this one into the "red" group.

Bump drafting: When the cars are equally prepared to gain good qualifying spots, bump drafting is totally accepted.


I'm sure your CMC and AI / AIX fellow drivers will be more than happy to give you a taste of it if you get in their way... There's always entry level race groups under the NASCAR umbrella if you like bumping into things. Or Spec Miata if you like bumping into anything from any angle...

Come on Graham... you know we're referring to 'consensual' and properly executed bumper to bumper contact for the purpose of gaining even more extra speed than just drafting... not arbitrary non-consensual at any angle any time any place any how running into one another... ;)

At least that was the only kind of contact I was referring to...

Steve 'bump me... please... carefully...' Coleman


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