New HPDE Instructor Experience

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:34 am

My first weekend of instructing with NASA-MA at VIR-F went very well. The classroom sessions with Dan Unkefer on Friday were very informative and helpful for me and the rest of the group. I think we had 21 new instructors as of Saturday morning. Some of which got initiated very quickly Saturday morning. One went into the tire wall to the right of the Esses in an Evo, and another instructor took a wild ride in an MR2 into the tires way off of T17.

I had two students. The first was in Level 1 in a Neon R/T with stock suspension and A032Rs. He had lots of Rally experience (some on tarmac) but none on track. The Level 2 student was a 19 year old with a brand new Shelby GT 500 Mustang that his Dad gave him. It was a beautiful blue with white stripes and had lots of power and torque. He had one track event (CMP with a ’03 Cobra) under his belt.

The Neon guy picked up things rather quickly, but we had MANY trains in HPDE 1 (surprise!) and we didn’t get much open track. In session two we did get some and he had fun and actually passed a good number of cars. Most of which had double the power of the Neon. He was a little under the weather, but still managed to do pretty well. He was very complimentary on my instruction which made me feel good.

The Mustang guy seemed a little shy at first, but gained my respect quickly. While we were on the false grid before session number one I asked him a few questions. I asked “So, do you drag race this car?” His reply was “No, I don’t care for that, I like this (road racing) much better. I’m here to learn how to drive”. Ok, so how’s that for “what you wanna hear” from a 19 year old with his too fast car? Now that was the attitude that I wanted from my student!

We worked on learning the line, how to brake enough to allow the nose-heavy car to turn and apply the throttle earlier. He was apprehensive about touching the curbs causing him to miss some of the apexes at first. The good thing was he knew the power that his right foot could unleash, and how to manage it. In three sessions the tail only stepped out once, and that wasn’t due to too much throttle. That was because he trail-braked T14 (unintentionally) and caused the rear to break loose. To his credit he recovered nicely and we never left the black top.

Throughout the day the Shelby guy was able to make considerable gains in speed in the Esses, Southbend, and Hogpen. The turns that had the most potential for bad things to happen were the ones he excelled at most. He also had great vision and saw a few flags even before I did. Damn those 19 year old reflexes! I was like a proud Papa watching his progress thru the day.

The Neon guy’s last session was marred by more trains. He learned quickly, but unfortunately we didn’t have much opportunity to put it into practice. He returned to the rain-soaked track on Sunday feeling worse and decided to pack it in and go home.

On Sunday the Mustang guy stopped to pick me up and asked why I was all packed up. I told him that I came to the track to drive fast and that wouldn’t be happening today. I said we would continue to work on his line, but a greatly reduced rate of speed due to the temperature and wet conditions. We entered T1 at almost a crawl and immediately the tail started to slide. He reeled it in and was able to keep it behind him the rest of the day. Once we finally managed to get some clear track, he impressed me even further by adjusting his line to avoid the puddles especially in the braking zone for T1. He also adjusted his entry and exit speeds to match his different line. Damn I wish I was that smart at 19.

After the rain started to get heavier, the Shelby student decided that one more session would be in order and then he would pack it up and head home. As the conditions worsened, more cars left the track causing more caution flags, but he was still driving smart. About halfway through the session we exited Oak Tree and were able to execute a little more right pedal. As we passed somewhere near the South paddock pit out the student announced “Car, off, car off, right side”. I look to the right and see the car in the grass near T1 for South Course. I immediately scan left for the worker station directly opposite to see another car sitting on it’s driver’s door against the tires at the worker’s gazebo. As we pass and crest the hill we get the black flag all and returned to the pits. That ended the session and the weekend for us both. He decided to head home while he was still ahead and I was tired and ready to go as well.

All in all it was great weekend. I wasn’t bummed about not driving on Sunday since I got lots of time on the two days prior. Both of my students did very well and made me feel good as their instructor. It was all very tiring, but very rewarding as well. I’m excited to get back out there and do it again.

clinehall · **Posted:** Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:01 pm

Do we call you Professor Vincent now?

Stacy King · **Posted:** Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:55 pm

Nice write-up V. Looking forward to putting that experience to use at our events!

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

That was Colin in the Neon, right? He's one of the guys who kicks Rob's ass at Oakland Acres when he's there. Really cool guy.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:59 pm

Kevin Allen wrote:

That was Colin in the Neon, right? He's one of the guys who kicks Rob's ass at Oakland Acres when he's there. Really cool guy.

Yep that was him. Cool guy and he can drive. With some open track he would have been able to show a few folks just that.

Stacy King · **Posted:** Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:22 pm

Quote:

After the rain started to get heavier, the Shelby student decided that one more session would be in order and then he would pack it up and head home. As the conditions worsened, more cars left the track causing more caution flags, but he was still driving smart. About halfway through the session we exited Oak Tree and were able to execute a little more right pedal. As we passed somewhere near the South paddock pit out the student announced “Car, off, car off, right side”. I look to the right and see the car in the grass near T1 for South Course. I immediately scan left for the worker station directly opposite to see another car sitting on it’s driver’s door against the tires at the worker’s gazebo. As we pass and crest the hill we get the black flag all and returned to the pits. That ended the session and the weekend for us both. He decided to head home while he was still ahead and I was tired and ready to go as well.

Vincent... now that I know the severity of the incident you described... why they hell wasn't a Red flag thrown? Does a car on its side not warrant that at NASA events?

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:05 pm

Stacy King wrote:

Quote:

After the rain started to get heavier, the Shelby student decided that one more session would be in order and then he would pack it up and head home. As the conditions worsened, more cars left the track causing more caution flags, but he was still driving smart. About halfway through the session we exited Oak Tree and were able to execute a little more right pedal. As we passed somewhere near the South paddock pit out the student announced “Car, off, car off, right side”. I look to the right and see the car in the grass near T1 for South Course. I immediately scan left for the worker station directly opposite to see another car sitting on it’s driver’s door against the tires at the worker’s gazebo. As we pass and crest the hill we get the black flag all and returned to the pits. That ended the session and the weekend for us both. He decided to head home while he was still ahead and I was tired and ready to go as well.

Vincent... now that I know the severity of the incident you described... why they hell wasn't a Red flag thrown? Does a car on its side not warrant that at NASA events?

Nope.

In the Bomber race on Saturday, a Spec E30 lost its wheel just before 3. He got it off track, but not far. They flew the local yellow for a minute and it was back to business as usual while the VIR crew hooked up to the car to tow it off.

Diane Hall · **Posted:** Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:18 pm

As I understand it, red flag is last resort... you need the cars stopped and you need it NOW. If you can bring everyone into the pits under black flag all, you don't have the possibility of new incidents occuring due to the red flag. If the worker knows the driver is uninjured, why red flag it?

As to what NASA does, they do (well, did when I was down there, and I bet they probably still do) hot pulls when they can to avoid losing track time. The recovery crews are used to hot pulls given they work races, so doing it in a HPDE isn't really an issue for them. I can see where it might be disconcerting if you're not used to it, but that's why you always mind your flags... gotta keep the workers safe.

YMMV - I found that my perception of "safe" changed a bit once I started racing. Things that used to piss me off as a HPDE-only person was a lot less of an issue for me once I had a bit of a different perspective.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Diane Hall wrote:

As to what NASA does, they do (well, did when I was down there, and I bet they probably still do) hot pulls when they can to avoid losing track time. The recovery crews are used to hot pulls given they work races, so doing it in a HPDE isn't really an issue for them. I can see where it might be disconcerting if you're not used to it, but that's why you always mind your flags... gotta keep the workers safe.

Yep NASA-MA and NASA-SE both do it. For exactly that reason. Their schedules are so tight because they try to do so many things (DE 1-4, TT, Race Series, practice sessions). They will hot pull and keep things moving unless someone is hurt and/or the track is plastered with debris and unsafe.

Stacy King · **Posted:** Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:17 am

I understand all the hot pull stuff, and I don't have a problem with that, but the line needs to be very distinct between a race situation and DE. This incident happened during their HPDE2... which is equivalent to our Yellow group right? A street car with potentially no added safety equipment on its side against a tire wall should call for fire/rescue to get there as quick as possible. Especially if there was no Fire/Rescue in the South Course paddock to respond quicker.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:40 am

Before everyone goes crazy about an event they were not at....they did end the session early and the overall event was delayed 30 minutes. I know my HPDE-3 group had a final session of only 15 minutes. That was done to allow the Enduro to start on time. No gripes here.

If I am not mistaken, I saw the white Honda drive back to the pits. But a Blue BMW was not so fortunate. I think the black flag and delay was for the BMW. Its rear bumper was about 1/3 through the trunk.

Who's discretion is it to throw the read flag....corner worker or the sanctioning body?

I also learned first hand what the combo of yellow/white flags mean....

Stacy King · **Posted:** Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:50 am

jimpastorius wrote:

Before everyone goes crazy about an event they were not at....they did end the session early and the overall event was delayed 30 minutes. I know my HPDE-3 group had a final session of only 15 minutes. That was done to allow the Enduro to start on time. No gripes here.

If I am not mistaken, I saw the white Honda drive back to the pits. But a Blue BMW was not so fortunate. I think the black flag and delay was for the BMW. Its rear bumper was about 1/3 through the trunk.

Who's discretion is it to throw the read flag....corner worker or the sanctioning body?

I also learned first hand what the combo of yellow/white flags mean....

The BMW is the one that impacted the wall at the back straight corner station and ended up on its side.

In general, at least at our events... the corner worker calls in the incident to 'Control' (The lead VIR guy in the pits) and its at his discretion. But that's using VIR corner workers, some of the best in the industry. I don't think NASA uses VIR workers. I know they offer event credits if you 'volunteer' to work corners (and frankly, this scares me.... but only cause I don't know what kind of training they go through, if any)

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:06 am

Stacy King wrote:

If I am not mistaken, I saw the white Honda drive back to the pits. But a Blue BMW was not so fortunate. I think the black flag and delay was for the BMW. Its rear bumper was about 1/3 through the trunk.

Who's discretion is it to throw the read flag....corner worker or the sanctioning body?

I also learned first hand what the combo of yellow/white flags mean....

The BMW is the one that impacted the wall at the back straight corner station and ended up on its side.

In general, at least at our events... the corner worker calls in the incident to 'Control' (The lead VIR guy in the pits) and its at his discretion. But that's using VIR corner workers, some of the best in the industry. I don't think NASA uses VIR workers. I know they offer event credits if you 'volunteer' to work corners (and frankly, this scares me.... but only cause I don't know what kind of training they go through, if any)[/quote]

After rereading VK's post, I am not sure what the issue was. I am thinking that from 14 on, they got a black flag whereas rest of the course received a red flag.

This being my first NASA event and first time in an open passing session, I thought they did a good job with the flagging. Actually, I could not tell any difference between the NASA and VIR flaggers. One thing I did notice different, every corner station had at least two workers. Many had 3 or 4.

But I really wish they would stress if pitting in, stay track right!!!!

Stacy King · **Posted:** Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:13 am

Quote:

After rereading VK's post, I am not sure what the issue was. I am thinking that from 14 on, they got a black flag whereas rest of the course received a red flag.

I must have missed this somewhere... if this is the case, then I stand corrected and I applaud them

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:17 am

Stacy King wrote:

Quote:

After rereading VK's post, I am not sure what the issue was. I am thinking that from 14 on, they got a black flag whereas rest of the course received a red flag.

I must have missed this somewhere... if this is the case, then I stand corrected and I applaud them

Just for the record, I can only report on the flags I saw. We saw the black flag and came into the pits. The reset of the course could have very well been under a red flag. I left right after and didn't get the details.

BTW, hot pulls = good IMO. Considering all that they have going on in one weekend NASA does a damn fine job of keeping things on schedule.

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