VIR Recap

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:16 pm

Now that I think about it all we have to do is analyze the runs of 1 Mr. Karl Kaufman.

On Saturday he was on Azenis, Sunday RA-1's

Saturday: 2:33.798
Sunday: 2:30.553

That's 3.265 second improvement from what I consider a really good driver. Its only one data point in a large data set that has many variables.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

I'd wager that suspension bits contribute more than tire. Going from Konis on stock springs and stock ten year old bushings to Konis with Ground Controls and polyurethane bushings changed my world. Out of the box they were worth a couple of seconds on a standard autocross course. On track, where there is a lot less intensive sudden transitions, they'll still make the car handle better and provide better grip mid corner. But let's not say that the two second tire advantage and the two second suspension advantage are necessarily additive either.

Ashraf Farrag · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:29 am

Ron, your numbers sound reasonable.

Wes is right. I look like I'm about to roll my car over compared to Kevin's suspension...

Stock suspension:

Aftermarket suspension:

Good data points, Ryan. I wasn't following what Karl was running that closely.

So, comparing myself to Karl, it looks like I have up to 3 seconds in driver aptitude since I was running the Hankooks which are similar to the Azenis, provided Karl was giving it all there was to give on Saturday but consider if he has suspension mods and weather differences between the two days.

So, no votes for just working some more on the driver (data acquisition)? Did you get a chance to use that data acq device over the weekend, Ryan?

It sounds like I could find a little more by improving the nut behind the wheel but not as much as I think. I just keep visualizing the Top Gear episode where Sir Jackie Stewart "educated" James May...and keep telling myself, it's in the driver...it's in the driver...but bolting on some parts for quicker laptimes definitely has its appeal.

--Ashraf

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Data Loggers ($$$$). A camcorder ($$$). I use a camcorder. Would love to use a DL but they're a bit pricey and I believe illegal in an HPDE.

What are you allowed to change in your class?

Assuming we are talking VIR Full.

I've been told going from stock Supercar tires to Nitto R2 / Toyo RA1. Expect to pick up 2-3 seconds. Supercar to Kumho V710 or Hoosier R6. Expect to pick up a good 4 seconds. That is on a Z06 but seems to be consistent on a number of cars. Tires are an easy upgrade.

HP on VIR-F. More is better. Too much is just right :lol:

Seriously though. Look at Jims' video. About 30 seconds to get down the back straight. 20-25 down the front straight. Not sure what it is on the Miata, but it's safe to say a good bit longer. So if you do a CAI and a catback. Not too expensive. You bump your HP by +5 or +10. How much time will that cut the straight. If you pickup 1-2 seconds on each straight. Maybe a few tenths in each of the other sections like T1-T3, T5-T9, T10-T11. They all add up. That would equal a race tire. It's pretty much a one time cost that won't wear out like tires...

Like Ron said. I'd do the CAI and cat-back and drop the cat if you don't mind being illegal (on the street). Then the r-comps.

Suspension I'm sure will help but it gets fairly expensive. 2 parts that are reasonable are sway bars and poly bushings if they are legal in your class.
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clinehall · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:37 am

Ashraf Farrag wrote:

Ryan and I were bench racing about this Sunday afternoon...

I think my money is best spent on some race seats that would help me to feel what the car is doing and after that,

Regards,
--Ashraf

There was an article in Grass Roots a couple of years ago that stated they (I guess it was Tim Suddard) dropped 3 seconds after installing a full race seat in his tr3 vintage racer. They made a case that just being propery fitted and stable in the car was the biggest difference you could make for your money.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:26 am

Graham Jagger wrote:

You bump your HP by +5 or +10. How much time will that cut the straight.

See that's the thing about a Miata, bumping the HP is the absolute HARDEST thing to do. It would sicken most people to hear that the super duper pimp IRTB/Megasquirt setup I had was worth 6 hp over the stockish setup. It feels just as strong now with just the Megasquirt (hence why the IRTB now reside in San Francisco).

Dataloggers are coming way down in price. I hope to be able to test the my MaxQData out this coming weekend at VIR. Once I do get it running, I want to shove it into as many cars as possible to see the differences.

Suspension is EASY and not extremely expensive. The Bilstein PSS9 coilovers are around a grand and work great for autocross or track. There are used deals to be had, you just have to keep an eye out.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:19 am

Here’s a short video from Ross Miller in his 944 Cup car. I'm the car in front...duh.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=K4Y9CXbQs1k

clinehall · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:02 am

VK,

Do you have any in car video's? I am going to full course with BMW next weekend and wanted to get a refresher from a front wheel driver.

Cline

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:06 am

clinehall wrote:

VK,

Do you have any in car video's? I am going to full course with BMW next weekend and wanted to get a refresher from a front wheel driver.

Cline

Not yet, but I will after this weekend. I'm sure there are plenty around though.

Richard did you get any video?

Ron Spencer · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:08 am

Cline drive the same line as in the video from the 944. I didn't see any real differences. Your instructor will modify the line as needed.

Ron

clinehall · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:10 am

I forgot, cool video vk, you ought to send that to Chevrolet and see if they will give you some kind of contengency money for smoking German hardware. May they can at least make you some titanium bearings :lol:

clinehall · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:10 am

Thanks, Ron.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:12 am

clinehall wrote:

I forgot, cool video vk, you ought to send that to Chevrolet and see if they will give you some kind of contengency money for smoking German hardware. May they can at least make you some titanium bearings :lol:

Make no mistake, Ross was following me at my request to get some video for me. I was the one holding him up...trust me. Of course his car does weigh almost 1,000 lbs less than mine.

Ron Spencer · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:23 pm

Vincent I feel better now. I was thinking as I watched the video "boy, Vincent sure isn't checking his mirrors very often". Thought that was a bit strange since I know you are better than that!

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:59 pm

You can't see it in the video, but on the beginning of the 2nd lap I gave Ross the wave before T3 and he backs off immediately. Excellent attitude by him. I still think "the wave" and backing off should be common practice and taught in the classroom. It's better for everyone involved.

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