THSCC Forums

I'm thinking of doing a track event this year and I have a quick question if anybody can help me out. I sent a couple of emails to Mark V. asking this question but I never heard back from him. I know convertibles are required to run a roll bar for track events but somebody mentioned that if you had a hardtop, that was waived. I'm fairly skeptical of that claim and I am looking for a clarification. Is this true?

I used to do track events all the time (before Tarheel had a program) and have probably done ~30 events total at this point. I got really bored with them and once I re-discovered auto-x'ing, I gave them up all together. I thinking of trying out 1 event next year to see if I'm still bored and really don't feel like buying/installing a roll bar just for the "experiment."

I thought about just running the CRX but after the new motor install and the few issues I'm still having with it, that would probably be a bad idea. I have a couple of Miatas now (again? don't ask!) but neither has a roll bar. However, one did come with a hard top and thus the question.

Before all the safety-nazis jump on me, if this is allowed and I decide to do another event past the first one, a roll bar *will* be installed. Also note that I'm not asking anything about the time-trials and I know I'm not eligible for those at the moment.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks,

Jim

Well, don't know the answer to your question, but I have an HPDE legal roll bar I'd be happy to sell you to install.

For THSCC track events, you need a roll bar in a Miata, even if you run the hard top. Most clubs are that way with Miatae. Then you have to pass the "broomstick" helmet test to be legal. Being a man of similar stature to me, you won't have much trouble with that one.

Some clubs will let Boxters and S2K's slip by because of their rollover hoops, but those are the exception rather than the rule.

_________________
Tom Freeman
'98 M3/4/5 | '93 Spec3 325i | '12 TSX sport wagon | '03 Tahoe
Team Silver Bullets '91 240SX

James,

The official answer to your question is in the FAQ:
http://www.thscc.com/timetrial/faq.htm#thirtysix

The Miata's fiberglass top isn't going to do you much to protect you in a rollover without a rollbar, hence the rollbar requirement

Regards,
--Ashraf

Rent a ride.

I know someone with an old beater Celica that might be talked into some sort of a deal.

Jim... to reiterate... yes, roll-over protection is still required, even with a hardtop in place. Some clubs allow factory roll-over protection to pass tech, we do not.

Now... I'm curious why you were 'bored' doing HPDE before? I would think even crappy events would be fun. Tell us your experiences. Was it simply the lack of competition? Cause we have a cure for that with our Time Trial portion of our events. (Of course, that requires a roll bar even in non-convertibles)

_________________
Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant

Even if the rules allowed it, I bet you'd have a hard time getting an instructor in the car with you. Nothing personal, but I'm not getting in a convertable without a rollbar. I wouldn't even ride in one with only the little factory hoops (i.e. S2000). I want something for the car to roll over on besides my helmeted head.

Hope you find a way to come out and play.

Edit - Stacy, sometimes people are bored doing the same course over and over and over again. I need the repetition in search of the perfect lap, but that's not everybody's bag.

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Diane (Hall) Bundas
1992 Spec Miata #48 - 1997 Chevy Tahoe - 2007 Honda Civic Coupe

Oh I know... was curious about Jim's personal reasons, experiences... Carl started a big debate on the subject in this thread a few months ago:

http://www.thscc.com/phpBB/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0

Pretty good read... grab some popcorn and enjoy

_________________
Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant

Thanks guys. I already read all the info related to Tarheel's HPDE program and that was my conclusion as well. As I said, the only thing that made me question my interpretation of the rules/requirements was the fact that somebody who is heavily involved with Tarheel's HPDE program kept insisting that a hardtop was sufficient. No biggie-- I'll let them know that this is not the case the next time I see them.



Which bar do you have Les? I bought a '91 Miata with the intention of using it as a DD with an occasional track event but I recently picked up a '99 and I'm leaning heavily towards using that one. Both are currently bone-stock and it really is amazing how much more refined the NB Miatas are compared to the previous years. Anyway, I know the NB Miatas can't use some of the NA bars so that might be a potential issue.



Thanks Scott! I'd really have to think about that one. My gut feeling is that I wouldn't be comfortable in somebody else's car in that sort of environment. While I have no problem walking away from one of my cars if something happens, I'm not sure I want to be put in the position where I have to write a check for somebody else's hard work. Same thing with rally-x...



It was a few things Stacy. I got into HPDE's *after* racing go-karts, Mini-Cups, Bandoleros and a few Legends cars for several years so the lack of competition was the most obvious thing. Going from having ~40 maniacs inches away from you for an entire race to passing cars with a point-by was a little anti-climatic to say the least. The majority of the racing I did was on ovals (gasp!) so the HPDE's offered a chance to get a little variety. Some would even say that this ex-oval-head even figured out how to turn right.

It was also fun to run on some of the bigger tracks that I wouldn't have ever seen running in the circles I was (literally and figuratively!). Well, after that novelty wore off, there really wasn't much left. Everything on a big track happens so slowly compared to what I was used to that it just wasn't much fun anymore. It was nearly impossible to find somebody you could evenly dice with due to the large variance in driver skill/ car type/car prep.

I started in '96 with a '95 M3 and while that was a great track car, I decided I didn't want to risk wadding it up considering I was making payments on it at the time. That is what started me down the Miata path as I considered them disposable at the price they were fetching at the time. I enjoyed running Miatas a bit more than the M3 since I actually had to work to pass people but there was still no close competition and everything was even more slow-motion.

Now don't get me wrong, I realize that competition isn't the point of an HPDE. Ever since Tarheel started their time-trial events, I thought that might make track events interesting to me again. Without getting into the whole auto-x/road-race debate, I tend to think it still won't be fast-paced enough for me but I'm tempted to give it a shot anyway.

Jim

I have a Schimmel bar that is very similar to the HDHCDD. I'm not sure if it is compatible with an NB car or not, but Hard Dog sells a differen bar for NB cars, so maybe not...

Jim, I've got the M2HDHCDD in my 2000. Actually am on my second one - the first just barely wouldn't fit under my hard top, so Tom at HD made me one with a 3/8" lower main hoop. From the look of it they now sell this as the "M2 Hard Top", which wasn't available a couple years ago. I keep going back and forth as to whether I'm going to pull it or not - I'm relatively upper body tall and with OEM seats can easily make head contact with the bar on the street. If you'd like to check out the fitment you're welcome to give it a try (I'm in NW. Raleigh). I may even be convinced to pull it for a bit a loan it out, particularly if I could find a Sport bar (hoop is lower but sits further back) to put in it's place.

_________________
Dustin Fredrickson
-- I'm a nobody --

When I went to Bethania to buy mine and talked to the owner, I remember him saying that the main difference between a NA and NB bar is the design of the rear diagonals for the glass window in the soft top (and the harness bar portion of the roll bar). If you bought a bar for a NB, you should be able to install it in either car. A phone call or e-mail to Tom would clear this up for sure.

Regards,
--Ashraf

The diagonals on mine are somewhat different from the Hard Dog bar, not sure if it will work the a glass window or not, it does make for better reward visibility. Maybe Chris would know the answer.