THSCC Forums

Mazda is owned by Ford*

*(unless your are talking autox classing for Street Mod, then reality goes by the wayside )

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

Sure, but to race against who? Correct me if I'm wrong Jim, but I think you'd be happier racing wheel to wheel with ten really gifted drivers in a Miata, instead of racing five hacks in some sort of fast AI/AS type car. I could be wrong, but you've said competition is important to you, so I think I'm right.

SM is the place to be right now. Todd Buras, Jim McDaniels, the Pombo brothers...there's just a TON of serious talent running (just in the SeDiv) spec miata these days.

SM has its downsides. The front-running cars are no-expenses spared cars, as is becoming the case in all of club racing, but SM is notorious. Rotisserie paint, "cheater" tolerances that are on the nth end of the rules, rumors of "special" shocks that aren't quite the "Spec Miata" pieces you think they are. "It'll pass tech at impound" is a common thing to hear. Maybe Bowie will chime in here, but I'm pretty sure his Miata has benefitted from the large amount of R&D going into Miatas these days.

SM is also a victim of its own popularity. The guys at the front are straight up good racers. Those in the back tend to be pretty easy to pick off. The guys in the middle...they're the problem. It's a lot of good guys in crap cars, and a lot of crap drivers in rentals. And they tend to hit a lot of stuff. "Gotta win that test day." They'll dive bomb you without even thinking twice.

Someone mentioned spec racer fords...nice idea on paper, but not for me. I was paddocked next to a spec racer ford evangelist last year. He spent the entire weekend working on it. I also don't happen to like the fact that I tend to race in enduros, and SRFs tend to get clumped in with the IT cars. If one of them gets hit - which I've seen, from not a long way away - the guy in the IT car is going to win that fight every time.

Good luck Jim. We'd love to have you join us at some ECRs sometime - it's a really great group of people, despite all the things THSCCers say about SCCA.

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Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)

I agree with what Karl says about SM. I'd add that while those in the middle are the ones you have to watch for, I still don't think SM is nearly as "bumper car" as many try to make it out to be. I've done a lot of racing and been close to a lot of people, but just really haven't had a lot of contact. I've seen a lot of people do stupid things that could have caused contact, but you learn pretty quick how to spot those guys, too.

I'd add that *most* people in SM seem to care about the SARRC type sprint races. IMHO, those races are won and lost by getting in the top three or so of qualifying. If you can't do that, you can't win. At least not at VIR full, where there is too much talent and the gap gets too large on lap one to ever make it up in a short amount of laps. But CCPS and ECRs are where things get much more fun, particularly since a good many of the SARRC hot shoes are scared to run the longer races for fear of hurting something, or they just want to get on the road home quicker. Personally I usually run SARRC races, but it's my warm up for the ECR and/or CCPS.

That said, don't think you can always race every class available every weekend. I like to think I'm in pretty good physical shape in general, but the heat in those cars can be brutal, even with cooling gear. I thought I could do a double SARRC and then CCPS and ECR at CMP on Memorial Day this year (they spread it all over three days). What I didn't realize was the ECR was 2:05 and was on the same day as the CCPS (okay, I knew it, but what that *meant* didn't fully occur to me for some reason). So I ran the test day on Friday (four 20 minute sessions...I had to skip the last one to attend a graduation), then all the SARRC practice and qualifying and races (I think it was 20 minute practice, 15 qualifying, 30 race, and that was both Saturday and Sunday), then ran part of one practice on Monday to get some rubber buildup off tires. At this point, I was feeling pretty well worn out, and it was Monday morning and I had only run one session that day (and I took the toter to the track so I could get maximum rest by not having to drive to Camden for a stinking hotel), and not even all of that session (five laps?). I then ran three laps of the CCPS qualifying and quit (got a flyer in and didn't need to do any more...the Toyos were overheating just enough that you weren't going to go faster if you got a good one in early anyway). Then did three laps of the ECR qualifying. Then started the CCPS race. Damned engine started overheating about 15 minutes into the 45 minute race. I pulled it off track and it turned out it was the water pump. My rental crew (OPM) would have been happy to throw another one on for the ECR, but at this point I said no way. I would have killed someone or myself trying to run a two hour race that day. I packed up and went home.

Most people are probably better at realizing their limitations than me. At the very least I should have skipped Sunday entirely if I was going to try to do all of Monday, but in reality given how hot it was down there (gates of hell comes to mind) I don't think it was realistic to do both races in the same day. I'm sure a few brave souls did it, but I doubt many folks who ran all weekend did it.

But it is very nice that there are a lot of options for SM at the regional level race weekends to get seat time. That Memorial Day weekend was still one of my best weekends at the track as far as qualifying and finishes. I've always liked the track, but now I'm starting to get into the good time ballpark.

Given the price of fuel now, I think you can actually road race regionally for about the same price as doing national autocrosses, particularly if you're autocrossing something with large (ie. more expensive) tires.


--Donnie

Wow; how fast can they change a water pump? Chris Brown and I did his in ~ 6 hrs (but that included about 45 minutes of convincing him that the timing was set right and doing the assorted seals).

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

I bet the bay of a SM is a lot more accessible than Chris' R package, as well as OPM has probably done a ton of water pumps too. - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Yeah, they said it wasn't an hour to do it. *shrug*


--Donnie

Thanks for the input Karl. You are right about the AI/AS (American Iron/American Sedan) or T2, there does not look to be a huge turnout. I spent some time talking to a couple of the T2 drivers. They did not seem all that excited.

I did watch the Spec Fords, it was interesting. But nearly half the field retired early due to mechanical failure.

As with any form of motor sports, you there are haves and have-nots. I am in the have-not camp. You kind of accept the fact and try to drive a little harder. When you do well, it is pretty special. So I realize in SM (Spec Miata), I will be a have-not.

There have been a lot of acronyms tossed about. Any one wants to define them? There seems to be a lot of clubs, regions and sanctioning bodies. I admit, I am starting from ground zero here.

By the way Karl, I still remember that write up you did of your first race...

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Acronyms:

CCPS - Carolina Cup Pro Series (45 minute "enduro" series in the Carolinas)
ECR - Endurance Championship Racing (?), usually 1.5 hours, sometimes longer, races in the southeast
SARRC - southeast regional championship series, sprint races
MARRS - mid atlantic regional championship series, sprint races

All the above have points championships associated with them. With ECR and CCPS, there is a mandatory pit stop and you can change drivers, so you could do the codriver thing to help offset costs. I'd be very leary of that. A Legendary autocrosser once went road racing and considered the codrive thing with a guy local to him. He realized he should ask the guy "so, if you ball this thing up you do have the money to fix it, right?" His response was "at any given time I can come up with about a grand, yeah." Thus ended that codrive.

Some more:

SCCA - Secret Car Club of America (har)
THSCC - Tar Heel no generator and no awning having Sports Car Club
FV - Formula Vee (missing fenders and less HP than SM, I don't get it)
R&D - what you tell the wife you spent all the money you wasted on racing and beer

That's all I can find on this page that isn't obvious. Let me know if you need more stuff explained.


--Donnie

Up here, I wouldn't generalize it to ALL guys in the middle. I doubt that that's really the case in the SE either. To an ITC car, I'm sure it seems that way, but in an SM car, it's not quite that bad.

I run mid-pack, and generally people are OK, not great, but OK (if we were great, we wouldn't be mid-pack would we). You quickly identify those that race without thinking (fast guys included) and decide how to deal with them individually when they're around you.

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Diane (Hall) Bundas
1992 Spec Miata #48 - 1997 Chevy Tahoe - 2007 Honda Civic Coupe

I have found that in my limited HPDE experience. You learn who you can trust around you. Those that you might question, you deal with them a little differently.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Saw an interesting concept at VIR this past weekend...a SCC Cobalt SS that you can buy straight from the dealer. The downside, it was a $10,000 option.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

I would never race anything I had a car payment on. I know people do it, but it doesn't seem smart to me.

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Diane (Hall) Bundas
1992 Spec Miata #48 - 1997 Chevy Tahoe - 2007 Honda Civic Coupe

Who's car is this? It's local:

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/car/194556941.html

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I think that those are the S&C rentals.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Yeah it's not all of them to be sure, but it's a lot of them. Trust me - in an ITC car, if one of them was coming down inside of you, you could sit there and count them off...one, two, three...the guys who dive right in there with the first guy.

Now that SM is a nationally recognized class, it is unclear to me whether or not this wiill affect turnout at regionals. So far it doesn't seem to have made much of a dent - they're still everywhere.

BTW Jim, IT == Improved Touring. As of today, from slowest to fastest, there is ITC, ITB, ITA and ITS. Bowie and I race his Miata in ITA, where is should be a smidge faster than a good spec miata. Last year, I spent the year driving probably I think the nicest ITC car in the country. It was truly a best of everything, zero excuses car. ITC might not be for you - there's usually a reason why SCCA moves a car down to ITC, and it's usually something that makes the car a *not* very good race car. In our car last year, it was the 4-speed trans.

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Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)