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It was a pretty interesting week end. I had my 1st real shunt ( hard hit ) being a passenger. Both of us where OK. Wet grass in a down grade hill doesn't offer much slowing down. Track is really fun and at the same time a good work out. It was really well explain on previous post. You need a car that can handle the curb very well. The Porsche in that regards did the job quite well. About the top speed I was probably close to 100mph I had a look at the RPM a few times and it was around or past 6000 in 4th gear. I had passenger almost all weekend, manage to have Scott to ask me to slowdown ?????? Having passenger was fun but when I ended up alone in the time trial on Sunday the car was pushing a lot in the downhill part coming to the start finish line??? With passenger it was not like that. I guess that the difference in weight and weight distribution and the fact that I was trying harder created that behavior. I was time a few times with passenger in the middle or low 54. On Sunday my best official time was a 53.5 about a second or less than with passenger. Will need to check that more closely the next time.
Thanks to everyone involved in the organization of the event, great job. Special thank to Mark Vittaco, he knows why.
Did I will do it again? YES, except for one thing ( see first line ).

Patrice

Did I forget to mention that in my original post?

I went for a ride with Patrice in the 2nd instructor run group on Saturday. I was fine for about the first 1/2 of the session, then thigns started to go downhill. I kept telling myself that I'd grab a gew deep breaths on the next straight, but there just isn't any recovery time. At one point I was drying to take a deep breath and we hit the downhill braking zone at the same time - not fun!

I held on for a while longer, still able to look at Patrice's line and communicate, then with about 1/4 of the session to go, all I could do is wonder if that was the lap I needed to tell Patrice to stop. I cursed the start-finish flagger every time the checker wasn't flying!

Finally, I told Patrice that he better stop and as we rounded the last turn before the pit entrance the checker was flying. So, while I did ask for mercy, I also survived 98% of the session.

It took me nearly 30 minutes to feel "normal" again.

Scott

SO I thought I would point out I was at Nine's Junkyard last week. And there was an E30 325, black, with a pristine body.

Just thought someone might want to know about that

_________________
91 Jetta GLI STS/DSP 111
85 Porsche 944 ASP 11
http://www.blackforestindustries.com

I was also a passenger in Patrice's car, but if we'd been out there for 30 minutes, I would've loved every minute of it. Only problem I had was a sore neck - and it's still sore.

Christine was a passenger on Sunday, and she came running up to me after getting out of the car. "That was awesome! Holy crap! Wow!" etc etc etc... I said, "so can I get one of those?" Her response: "HELL YES!!!"

I still got a sore neck too. Time to look for a neck collar, any suggestion from the one that are using one?

Patrice

Patrice,

If you are doing track events you need a HANS Device as fast as you are going.

_________________
Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

Neck collars need to be mandatory, at least for the time trial.

That course is tremendous fun. I vote for a return trip, you bet! Novices need not apply ever.

I really don't think it's all *that* hard on brakes. The hardest part is the braking on the straight before spiral. The braking zone going into "Bitch" is uphill a little, so you got that working for you. Do turn 1 *correctly* and you really don't hit the brakes too hard at all. On a scale of 1-10 (1=Roebling, 10=CMP), I give it a 7 in terms of brake abuse. Perhaps our 15-20 minute sessions vs. the usual 30 minutes helped. I don't remember too many offs because of running out of brakes (like South course). Now, running out of talent is another story....

Matt<--got in a midnight.

While I found the course busy, I loved it. Then again, I like the AutoX section at CMP. Going up the Spiral is a whole new experience. Of course I also managed to slide off in a part of the track that was just called the No Brainer section......in a borrowed car..
Luckily it was both harmless and rather spectacular for the spectators.

I really liked how the TT times were fairly close for almost all classes. It made for a VERY competitive event. If I remember correctly on 4/10's seperated the top 3 DSP cars.

It's been so long since I've done a school or time trial, that I guess I'd better jump in. I enjoyed the course a lot. It wasn't as much fun as turns 8-15 at Mid Ohio, but the sensation of being on a fast autocross course was there.

I hate blind turns and and this course has 3. Turn 4 wasn't bad (for me), though there were a few moments once I began running over the gators more aggressively. I could not make myself hold full throttle in 2nd over the top of the spiral. Knowing there was a big metal drain grate in the grass just past track-out was a big disincentive. And turns 8-9 just sucked. I could not see my turn in point for 8 until about a half second before I got there. Once I turned in, there was not enough time for the car to settle before I had to brake for 9. So there I am, trying to get rid of a bunch of momentum and downshift, the car is way off balance, the track is still off camber, there are gators to drive over with my left tires, and I don't have ABS. Anybody want some really shaved RA-1s? Only one event on them!

Compared to South Course, this place didn't require much braking. Of course, results may vary, but I never got much over 85 mph anywhere. I had Carbotech XP9 pads on new stock Motorcraft front rotors, and BIG ducts (9"x3" scoops leading to 3" hose). No warping or scoring of the rotors, which is a first. I assume the rear drums were doing something, since I had to bleed air from their lines couple of times. Unfortunately, Matt tells me I have to swap my old rotors back in to use my Bobcat pads for this weekend's autocross. If I die of wheel bearing grease poisoning this week, it's his fault!

I really needed shorter gearing. 2nd gear was perfect for the spiral, since I reached my shift point (5000 rpm/67 mph) right at track out at the top, but I lost ground to those pesky 350Zs on the straights. I had to catch them in the twisty bits, and then they had to deploy their drag chutes to let me by.

I also need about 35 degrees of negative camber in the front. So many of the turns are off camber, and my front left tire squealed like a pig all weekend.

My instructors were great. I started out with Glenn Long Saturday morning. He had me pretty well squared away on everything except turn 1 in the first session. He wasn't feeling well when my 2nd session came around (I heard that lots of instructors suffered from motion sickness) so his son Tom filled in. Tom placed 3rd in SSC in the 2003 runoffs - so I figure he made an acceptable substitute And he did help me with turn 1, which made turns 2, 3 and 4 much more fun.

Thank you to Mark and Matt and Stacy and everybody responsible for putting on this event!

Art

And picked to win this year...

...which means someone will likely take him out by lap 5 ...

Any body no anything about that Valiant that was running?

_________________
David Teague
2015 Lexus IS 250c
1994 Honda Del Sol HS 39
2009 Dodge Journey R/T
http://teaguefamily.us

He bought some tires from me yesterday

_________________
91 Jetta GLI STS/DSP 111
85 Porsche 944 ASP 11
http://www.blackforestindustries.com

Greetings:

What a weekend that was! I reviewed the feedback forms last night
and just had a quick read though the forum "buz". I can say we are
all of one mind regarding VIR Patriot Course. I think you all appriciate some of the chananges we faced putting a format together to make this
event work. Are and up to the challange and want more.

Without exception, all forms submitted, said they enjoyed driving
the course, enjoyed a real challange, and want us to come
back next year. (Including Jonethan Evens who has a fender to
replace and a $200 ARMCO bill to pay wants to go back). I think
many want to go back just to master the beast and not be defeated by
it. After all most of us are racers in one form or another and you
don't give up just because a couse is techincal and demands the
best driving skill and concentration you can muster.

Put into prospective, a good techincal track may not always give
a good first impression because, well, you have to work and
you are used to just having fun. Once you master the track,
can you then form an opinion. I think in terms of a technical
track VIR-P blows the doors off Jefferson curcuit and CMP.
This track will not bore you for shure and leavs you wanting
more and that was clearly shown on your feed back forms.
The forms almost shouted : "I will not be beaten".

43 responded by form and 2 vie email thus far. We are missing
feedback from about 10 but usually only get input from
less than half perticipants. IF the other 10 were negative I
would like to hear from you as well. The team has to decide
if if we want VIR-P on the schedule next year. This will bring
us to 5 events a year, personally I would like to keep it at 4.

The non-novice call was apparent to all. 3 or more years ax experience
or intermediate level or above is appropriate. Sorry to exclude
the most enhustic segment of our perticipants but this is just not the
place you want to have your first ever on track high speed experience.
We have a full range of other venues suited for that.

5 tire wall contacts, most of any event to date.
However, two were during the TT and the result of poor jugement:
- going off on a cool down lap (still a DNF)
- red misting
Of the 3 contacts during the school, two were very light
incidential contacts but unfortunatly Frank Catana's was hard
impact, his Miata is bent during lap 3 or 4 on this first session
day one.

The decision to exclude first timers was also based on our prediction
that being so busy, with elevation changes, it is difficlut to ride as
a passanger. I know at least 3 people got sick riding. THis is really
suited for SOLO driving and testing not in-car instruction. Plus side
is experience SOLO driver events gives us instuctors weekend to
play and be students again ourselves. Many instructrors commented
they appriciated this opportunity to just drive and have totally
shelfish fun for a whole weekend. I am very thankfull to the few
to took on two students to accomidate those requesting instuction.

Short sessions at 20 mins was, with one exception, agreeded. In fact
many (more than a few) including Stacy and Myself thought a 4-15min
format would be better than 3-20. It would not give you more track
time in minuites but it would give you more track experience or
exposure. I would never have thought that a 15 mins session would
be usuable but this is the exception. 15 mins coud work. However,
Danial Clark will be given the "Michael Shuemacker'F1 racing does
not even make me break out into a sweet" Award. Daniel thought
the track sessions could have been longer. All I can say is:
Danial. I hope I never have to face you in a endurance race!

All you quicly figured out that what little run off area there is, when
there was any run off area, is mostly down hill. You needed to
stay on track and 98% of us did. While we had 5 wall contacts the number of off's are one of the lowest we recorded second only to the Roebling event last year. Unfortunatly the remaining 2% came home
with damaged cars from wall contact. I don't want to sugar coat or
understate the risk but there are issues that will need to be addressed.

I think we will find that most if not all of this issues will have simple
fixes or are already under consideration by VIR but the fact is all
new tracks (VIR full course included) show areas of improvement
once you start putting traffic on it.

The majority indicated they would not be interested in holding a dedicated
TT type event at $200 even if it included a couple of 20 min practice
sessions. I got the impression from comments that many thought $200
was pushing the limits for a 1 mile course. This is not good but it
gives me someting solid to use to negotiate.

The PA system bites. I suspected as much when the facilities manger,Ray,
handed me a bull horne and advised 'take this, you'll need it'. Again,
a important but easy to fix issue.

Jead Advised VIR has plans to install a pit entrence lane that would
start at the track of of the last turn (turn 11). That would also widen
out the exit of that tight turn and make it flow better.

Part of the proposals I plan to submit is full FIA spec curbing. This
is one course were you really need to use the curbing to cut a fast
time, and the graduated FIA spec curbing is desiged to facilatite that.
I also plan to recomend they streaghten out turn 4 like what was
doen on the North Course cut through exit. I think that will
eliminate cars going off at the top of the hill and lack of run off
area when they do. However, after some laps I liked the tight
chicane of turns 9/10/11. This is a equalizer and brought back
the good memories from autocrossing.

My personal view: It's like being on the ragged edge of controll
all the time. It brougth back the good things about autocrossing
that I liked. I had noises comming out of Hoosiers that I have
never heard come out of a Hooser tire before. The tire loadings
must have been awsome-even on a light car like mine when
the uphill elavation changes were working for you, just about
when the car was going to lose it you were out of the turn and
into the next. lap after lap feel like flat out qualifing laps all the
time.

I had one "moment" after figuring out the paddock sweeper could
be taken at stupidly fast speeds. They released a car in front of me
at a time it was impossible to lift let alone brake. I estimated
we would not make contact until halfway up the hill so I had time
to make the corner and then create a streight braking zone
uphill into one of the few flat grass run off areas available.
So no, I was not another crazy IT driving trying to pass you in
the grass!

I king of enjoyed dropping 2wheels over the curbing and
taking out several apex cones Oscar White style
Ron debates and claims 4 wheels off, I admist it was close
clipping apexes with the outside of the inside tire!
(I.E. more than 1/2 the car in the dirt).

I can think of no better way to sum up VIR-P than to quote
Murry Walker CBE:

"On the ragged edge of adheasion"

Probably the most quoted Murryism of the weekend was:
"...oh......oh......ohmy!"

Thanks to Ron I got to drive a lot both days in assored run
groups. I was able to get in many clear laps in all the sessoins
I drove. I was really looking forward to the TT to get some
relative times, but unfortunatly the clutch cabel let go just
as we started to pull the Scirocco to Grid. We I missed the
grid on Sat but ran a 56.00 flat Sunday. The car should
have been well in the 55's but the driver managed at least
one nagging error on each of the 3 laps. It would have been
great to have gotten segment times to at least know what
my best theorical lap time was so I would have a target for next
time. (you best segments added together). I missed Chris
Schimell not being able to make it but

_________________
Mark Vitacco
THSCC TT Chairman
mvitacco@bellsouth.net

Nice writeups, Mark and all.

I had a blast at the event in my '66 Valiant w/'64 Dart front clip (a Plodge Vart?). It was the first outing for the car, and the first for me in over a year. We had an excellent time. No mechanical issues with the car, and we got a baseline to compare w/future mods. The car will be improved and out at CMP in Oct.

Highlights of the weekend were:

- Driving my new creation at speed and feeling it was solid and predictable
- Driving my first TT ever
- Shaving over 1 sec off my TT from Sat to Sunday
- Getting a 20 min session w/ Patrice - what a driver and what a car!! I didn't get sick at all, and I'd do that again in a hearbeat.
- Hanging out with the club members and getting better acquainted w/everyone.
- Pushing the limits braking into turn 5, realizing I was too hot, and going straight off the track in control

David, thanks for asking about the Valiant. Are you on the "Mopax" list? We should get together. I have some info on the car at:

http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9362

Thanks to everyone for the excellent organization and execution of the event, and for the helpful comments and friendly atmosphere. See y'all at CMP!

Lou

_________________
'64 Dodge Dart 270
'68 Dodge Dart 270
'66 Plymouth Valiant 100

Mark, no debate about 4 off. You were no farther off than me!! Of course, thats not really clearing up the issue is it??

I agree with adding some pavement at the top of 4. If for no other reason than to keep that part of the track cleaner. I'm pretty sure I used the grass there even on cool down laps!

Ron