THSCC Forums

I just told Matt today that I wanted to run the Patriot course event, so now I need everything. Like tires. I've run Toyo RA-1s in the past and liked them. Just sent a note to Bob Chick. Last time I talked to him, he said he didn't get much in my size (225/50-16) these days, so if the used tire approach doesn't work, I may have to call Tire Rack for some cheap street tires.

Looking for feedback on Kumho MX, Dunlop FM901, Sumitomo HRTZ. Any other suggestions?

Art

Don't get the FM901's. I have them on my Cavalier. They are fine for the street and good in the rain. They suck for any performance driving. I tried them at the RBC events and the sidewalls are too soft to prevent roll-over w/o a ton of air pressure. I had mine at 50psi and still had roll-over!

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

Art,

"Cheap" and "Track Tires" probably don't mix. Especially for a course with lots of turns. You might be better off finding a well worn used set of higher quality tires. Avoids the potential chunking problem of new tires also.

Edit to add: If "used" won't work, the new Avon Tech M500 is shown at $89 each in your size on Tirerack.com. Good reviews.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

I wouldn't do the MX at full tread on a nose heavy car. I run Sumitomo HTRZ-II tires on the new celica and they are fine, even held up to a few course setup days and night events. Can't comment about track.

I suspect you won't be real happy with any full tread tire.

Scott

Art,

Would it help availability if you switched to 245/45X16 since the RA-1's come in that size? Similar size and in a high performance tire the extra width might not be a problem if your wheels are a little narrow compared to optimum. I believe this may have been a common Gomaro/Firechicken size which might mean used street tire takeoffs could be available. I think it was a common RX-7 autocross size but don't know about oem.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

Back in the dark ages before there were "cheater" tires, I won the 1999 THSCC street tire championship on HTRZ IIs, and have been a fan of Sumitomo tires ever since. Both of my cars have recently been clad with new Sumitomo rubber. They may not be the best out there, but I personally feel the take the "bang for your buck" award although Kumho is strong in this regard also.

Well I know several people with S4's and another guy with an E36 M3 that have, and do run, the MX's on track at full depth. And the S4's aren't exactly lightweight

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Art,

IF you end up with new full tread tires the key will be to avoid "pushing" the fronts long enough to let the tread blocks get the edges worn gradually. They will still wear badly but you can avoid chunking them if you are careful. FYI for my GY 245/45X17's a GY engineer said to run them at about 32-34 psi hot to minimize tread chunking. Might not have been the fastest pressure but they did ok at VIR south in early 01.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

Kumho MX on a heavy car = bad wear on the outside shoulder. (sidewalls are really squishy - I have a few photos of my car on them where it looks like the wheel is about to dig into the ground) Probably won't completely cord the edge if you use high pressures, but you might need to flip them after a track weekend. They grip GREAT, though.

I've also used Pirelli PZero Neroes (max performance, not M+S) at VIR and they were much better than the MXes - grip was a little better, but steering response kicks ass. I'd say they're about equal to an Azenis for grip & response. Probably going to get another set of these before Patriot.

Check with Bob Woodman Tire and Appalachian Race Tire to see if they have any used road-race compound Hoosiers available in something that fits your car. When I was buying them they were around 40 bucks a tire (more if they were really super good)

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Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)

Art,

Remember you actually do have a few choices now that weren't around awhile back. The Nitto 555RII is a road race compound tire that apparently has been doing pretty well. (not to be confused with their drag race model 555 tire....) For awhile, it was only available in a certain 17 inch size. I don't know if that's changed. Graham's been cleaning my clock with those in some events this year on his Vette and he likes them. They remind me of Toyos, the way they look. The treadwear rating is about 100. They are at least faster than two year old Hoosiers! Info here:

http://www.nittotire.com/tires_555r2.asp

Also, Hankook has a tire that may meet your needs if you are a previous Toyo RA1 lover. The Z211 comes in a 13 through 17 inch sizes.

http://www.hankooktireusa.com/pdf/uploads/Z211.pdf

I've read good things about both tires from various forums as a lapping day/HPDE tire, and a tire that you can drive to events on, if you want to take the risk of getting a nail in your track tires.

I haven't really researched where to buy such tires, so if others have experience with that, I'll let them chime in here.

Anyway, just wanted to point out that you had choices.

Miles

I've looked for the Hankook's and apparently there's only one place in town that HH&W can order them through. Didn't wait around to find the price as the other place was closed.

They are available in a good number of sizes...

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1993 VW Corrado VR6 - DSP15 (RIP)
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1997 BMW M3 3.2L - BS for now

What I really need is for Ron to find another set of full tread RA-1s in his crawl space and sell them to me cheap. Ron? Ron? Put the nail gun down and go find me some tires!

Toyo says that a 7.5" wide rim is required for 245/45-16. I have one set of 16x8s, mounted with my rectangular autocross tires, so whatever I buy for track use needs to fit on my 16x7s.

Miles --The Nittos only come in rather 17-18" sizes.

Matt N said nice things about the Hankooks. If I spring for new r-compound, I'll consider them against new RA-1s.

Dick - 32-34 lbs hot on the front of a Mustang and they didn't peel off? OK, you're the engineer.. we gotta talk

Thanks all for the comments and suggestions. Keep 'em coming!

Art

Art,

Have you talked with Toyo tire engineer regarding rim width? It is common to run performance tires on rims that are slightly narrower than the "recommended" minimum width.

As far as the tire pressures with my oem GY's, keep in mind that 30 psi is the normal cold street pressure, the rims are 8" wide, the tires are wide 45 series, and the full tread tires certainly don't have a ton of grip. I checked my notes and found out I was wrong on the pressures . . . he said 35 - 36 hot. He also said to avoid adding more steering angle when the fronts start sliding since heat buildup on the shoulders is what causes chunking. Edit to add: What I did was to simply listen for when the fronts started to squeel a little and then back off slightly. Never let it slide. Much different from what my instructor did in an M3 on Kumhos. He got the car into major understeer on many corners . . . painfull.

I like the suggestion to get some used road race compound Hoosiers!!!

Dick

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

I've also driven Jimmy's E36 M3 on Toyo T1-Ss and thought they were pretty darned good. Far superior (unfortunately) to the Yokohama AVS Sports he replaced them with. So don't get those.

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Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)