How prevalent is this type of behavior?

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:59 pm

As a California native and FORMER California driver I think I am qualified to "explain" the obvious craziness in the video . . .

First, you must understand that Californians are crazy in general. Second, they are expecting to die at any moment anyway from either buildings falling on them from an earthquake or from drowning in the ocean when the big earthquake makes Nevada into a coastal state. Third, in recent years the general level of driving talent on the California highways makes Boston or New York or New Jersey or even DC Beltway driving look tame (I've lived there also). Fourth, Movie Stunt drivers practice on public highways and the locals are used to this kind of driving action.

As a result, compared to normal Californa driving on public roads in traffic, what you see in the video on the race track is tame. How do you think I learned how to autocross? It sure wasn't during autocrosses where at most you got two runs. I could tell some stories about how and where I learned how to drive close to the traction limits in my early days of autocrossing.

Mark Grabski · **Joined:** Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:33 pm **Posts:** 40

It's just a different style. It's good to have options. It's not right or wrong as long as the style and risks are clearly articulated before the event.

BTW, how are NASA events? I'm trying one at VIR North. They have passing anywhere on the track with a point by for advanced. Do they wait for point-bys or do they end up open passing?

Thanks,
Mark

David Teague · **Posted:** Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:05 am

Mark Grabski wrote:

It's just a different style. It's good to have options. It's not right or wrong as long as the style and risks are clearly articulated before the event.

BTW, how are NASA events? I'm trying one at VIR North. They have passing anywhere on the track with a point by for advanced. Do they wait for point-bys or do they end up open passing?

Thanks,
Mark

All school groups are supposed to wait for a point by from the car they are passing no matter what. We have sat people down for the day or the weekend, after hearing complaints of people passing without point by's. However this does not happen alot when it has it has genneraly be a racer out testing his car from a mechanical or a racers who car has borken and is out there driving someone else's car in the school groups, and becuase of thoose issues we have stopped that practice. A lot of the NASA-VA instructors are Car Guys THSCC, or BMWCCA instructors and We try and run the safest event possiable. IT should be very simular to as school group with Tarheel. When your there Mark is you see a guy walking around with a Mic in his hand and a NASA shirt that will be me, come up and introduce yourself.

Mark Grabski · **Joined:** Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:33 pm **Posts:** 40

Thanks David. I'll look for you. There are 4 of us going and it will be our first with NASA, looking forward to it.

Mark

David Teague · **Posted:** Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:29 pm

Mark Grabski wrote:

Thanks David. I'll look for you. There are 4 of us going and it will be our first with NASA, looking forward to it.

Mark

Good to Hear, we have a good time at NASA the Races are fun to watch to also, don't leave imeditaly after your last session on saturdays We always through and end of day party with free food and free drink for all.

gary kole · **Posted:** Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:27 pm

just returned from another weekend of instructing, this time nasa at summit main. dan unkifer, cheif of instruction asked me to compare svtoa, emra, nasa and thscc. not looking for kudos, but i told him that when i returned from the two weekends at vir this year with you guys, that i was totally relaxed. not that nasa does a bad job, but the emphasis is racers first, students 2nd to a degree. they treat us well, good instructor meetings, but a different feel that is hard to quantify. probably because of all the other activities that are happening with races and side shows mixed in. i'll say this, their logistics are good but some of the (non)flagging situations i saw this weekend were scary. especially after no oil flag was thrown, despite corner workers requesting it. 4 cars off track and one ambulance ride for one of my best friends. (thankfully nothing but shaken and stirred but car trashed).

David Teague · **Posted:** Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:36 pm

gary kole wrote:

i'll say this, their logistics are good but some of the (non)flagging situations i saw this weekend were scary. especially after no oil flag was thrown, despite corner workers requesting it. 4 cars off track and one ambulance ride for one of my best friends. (thankfully nothing but shaken and stirred but car trashed).

Not sure what situation you are refreing too but since I spend 90% of my time in control, I can tell you we would never not let a debris flag be flown if a corner worker requested it.

Marty Howard · **Posted:** Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:55 pm

You should have known the video would be like that from the "Yo-Yo, whaz up" lead in

gary kole · **Posted:** Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:29 am

david i was refering to the incident on saturday when the mustang (?) spewed antifreeze for 2 laps on the track. also what several corner workers told me about their point of view, so i may have been misinformed (never trust charlies people??dont know). 2 cars off at 3, the vw that slid down through 4 but made it, and the crx that did not make it. there was no excuse for that, as chris admitted to the driver of that car sunday. also no reason to black flag him for having scca stickers on in group three that cost him half a session, also a mistake chris said. that was only race cars that had to cover up. in any case, he got all of 2 laps on a recently rehabbed car before going off in that mess. i was with a student sunday morning when that same car was almost collected by us because he was out there with no brake lights. only because i noticed his right rear start to lock up coming down into ten and warned the student did we not collect him. he is the one who should have been black flagged both days. and a p.s no disrespect for the workers-one i know from beaverun and callie and bud kruger i have know since joining emra in 1970. they worked 10 sat. and 3 on sunday.

JakeKitchener · **Posted:** Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:12 pm

Unbelievable! I have to say I'm not sure I'd keep my car out on a track with those people for very long.

Thank you east coast (THSCC especially) for running sane, educational, and fun events!

David Teague · **Posted:** Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:05 pm

Gary,
I do remember that incident now, and we even talked about in Sunday in control, as far as we know we did not get a request for a debris flag, and in general a debris flag is something they are told to fly if they see debris and call in and tell us why and what they are flying it for, I have been working with JJ and Mark for 3 years now, and I have never seen them turn down a request for a flag. If there was fluid on the track in 4 then a flag should have been flown and that was defiantly a mistake, but I know that Mark nor JJ would not allow information to be passed to the students on track and we always err on the side of caution.

Saturday was a rough day we dispatched the fire truck 4 times on saturday, and it seemed that ev was out for every group except hpde 1,2 and 4.

Now I will say that unfortunately there were some communication issues with several corner workers and control, coming to the point were we had one person cussing at control over an open net about concerns on how the drivers were driving around eve on course to another saying we told her to "shut up", when she had a report, however she tried to call in a report during a time when ev was on sense for a fire, and was told to hold the call until ev had cleared the emergency. JJ, Mark and Charlie all meet with the workers after the event and cleared up a lot of these misunderstandings and things on Sunday were much smoother. Overall Charlie’s workers were very good, epically you’re friends who were in turn 10 on Saturday and the guy in turn 1; however there seemed to be a big gap in experience.

NASA dose not have its own group of corner workers (like the scca), we have a dedicated race control, race director and starter, but the rest we rely on the track or groups like Madison Motorsports or entrophty racing for workers. We are only as good as the info we get, we had one race weekend when several drivers were very upset that we did not do anything about some contact that happened in the a race, well it happened in the carousel and we did not get a call from any of the corner workers about contact, we asked about it at the end of the day and their comment was that the SCCA group that runs there does not care about minor contact calls.

Can we do things better? Sure without a doubt.
Does NASA put on a safe and fun event? Sure without a doubt. (IMHO, which might be a little biased hehe)

gary kole · **Posted:** Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:15 am

believe me, nothing that happened would keep me from running with nasa again. (i have many times before). that mustang actually dropped coolant around the whole track-spoke to the drivers who visited the gravel trap at 3. i also was a bit biased because of my concern for the driver who went off in 4. he is one of my best friends and had put heart and soul into rehabbing his 1st race car and got all of 2 laps out of it. also some of my info, vis a vie workers, came from bud kruger, who has been known to embellish(!!) stories a bit. hopefully if my car is back together (brain fart caused me to break it) i'll see you at vir in a few weeks. if not in sept at patriot or summit. and the reason no ev was needed for 4 was cause i was init !!!!!!!!!! lol

David Teague · **Posted:** Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:21 pm

gary kole wrote:

the reason no ev was needed for 4 was cause i was init !!!!!!!!!! lol

LOL saturday was rough, but I defintaly looking forward to VIR on july 30aug1, Hopefully I will have my new brakes and shocks on and I can go toss my car around VIR North!!

gary kole · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:36 pm

i'm keeping my fingers crossed that new struts get here. had a student in my car in grp 2 and was hanging way back from a miata that did not notice me. was explaining the proper entry to 3 when-oops-dropped a wheel into the rut coming up to 3. brand new tire and strut shot as well as the wheel. used it as a learning experience for the student. mentioned ALWAYS paying 110% attention. duh! oh well-poop happens. and hope to run north-have run full,patriot and south, but never north. looks like fun. btw-by the 2nd session saturday the group 1 students, for the most part, were tearing it up. i had never seen anything like it. we were running in packs of cars at 110 plus on the front straight. and hardly any slowdowns for the vision impaired. in fact the only driver i remember who was a pita, was that supra that got demoted from 3 to 2 for sunday. very cool.

David Teague · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:12 pm

North is a Blast, the cross over is a whole lot of fun espically in FWD car, in some ways I Enjoy North course more than full, even though I do miss the uphill esses.

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