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Here's the whole session (sorry for shaky front cam - gotta find a mounting solution for my phone that's a bit more solid.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSydNsoFEmg

At about the 12 minute mark is where I think you point me by.

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It's coming off slowly but surely on the street. The HP+ will eat the rotors up on the street which has the side effect of cleaning any material off eventually. That side is extra noisy though, i'm sure people in the office know when I arrive at work lol.

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2017 Autocross Chief of Tech

2000 E Street Miata
2015 Focus SE EcoBoost 6 speed
2015 Fiesta ST (Wife's ride)
2012 Yamaha FZ1 sorta crotch rocket? All I know is 150HP and 487 lbs is fun!

The HP+ compound is definitely not appropriate for a Camaro IMO. Before ducting, my Mustang would eat even Hawk DTC-60s like they were nothing, so there's no way I'd run HP+'s on a heavy, fast car like a Camaro. I ran a set of DTC-60s down to the backing plates in just 6 sessions at CMP a couple of years ago. I now run Hawk Blues, and with the addition of proper ducting, I have doubled my pad life.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

This. I know a number of students have heard me say this, but Vincent's experience is a great example of it. Your brake system is a heat sink. The best heat sink we have is the ocean. Since driving the car into the ocean isn't practical, we have to settle for number two, which is the atmosphere. Ducting works.

The HP+ isn't a bad pad, but it isn't really going to be the kind of pad you want long term for a car with Camaro level performance.

Yeah, I know the HP+ isn't really going to hold up on the Camaro, it was a more of I need a pad for last years hyperdrive and it was labeled as entry level. I was pretty much anticipating needing to replace them with something better anyway. I actually think they got over-heated even though i didn't really notice any major fade. They started making noise under lightish braking into turn 3 especially also I had some braking shudder from the deposits.

After some quick google fu it looks like it's very common for HP+ pads to leave deposits on the rotors from being over-heated. I guess that's a good sign that I am using the brakes enough, unfortunately it means I need more expensive pads and probably some ducting, lol.

I've been looking at ducting, another good upgrade for the Camaro is CTS-V 6 pistons brakes up front, but I think ducting might make the OEM 4 piston Brembos work just fine.

The pads still held up pretty good I think considering I was braking from just over 130 and engaging ABS once in awhile in the turn 1 braking zone.

Anybody know which pads are not corrosive? My wheels are painted and I hear Hawk DTC pads are highly corrosive if the dust gets wet. Looks like carbotechs are not corrosive though.

Too bad the Z/28 ducting only fits the 2014 plus model SS's There is a couple aftermarket kits though, the other gray Camaro there on R comps had ducting on his, it looks pretty simple to install.

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2017 Autocross Chief of Tech

2000 E Street Miata
2015 Focus SE EcoBoost 6 speed
2015 Fiesta ST (Wife's ride)
2012 Yamaha FZ1 sorta crotch rocket? All I know is 150HP and 487 lbs is fun!

We have a saying regarding brake pads. Would you like quiet pads with no dust or would you like to stop? Noisy track pads are not a problem. As for rotors and deposits, there are several race pads that don't play nice with deposits left by other pads. I have dedicated rotors and pads to help with that issue.



You are on the right track with your OE Brembos. They will be more than fine, especially with ducting. If you are already engaging the ABS, a BBK will not stop the car any faster.



Hawk Blues (what I run) are the most corrosive, but if you don't let the dust get wet and dry it washes off easily. They are less expensive than their DTC pads, and do not last longer or stop any better IME. I'm not a personal fan of Carbotech stuff, but that's just me.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

A hot day at CMP in a stock Miata on HP+s is a toss-up as to what will overheat first: the coolant or the HP+ pads. I'm a fan of Hawk's offerings and they've been solid for me. Hawk's HT-10 pads aren't corrosive, but they eat rotors a bit faster than the DTC-60s. Here's a handy chart: http://www.hawkperformance.com/sites/de ... 0Graph.pdf

As for brake upgrades, all a bigger caliper/more pistons do is distribute the force on the pad more evenly so you wind up with non-trapezoidal pads. If you actually want to manage your brake temperatures, you need to look into pad compounds and directing some air at the rotor. You can buy temperature strips to stick to your caliper to find out how hot your caliper is getting during a session, but this will change as you improve as a driver and is fairly dependent on environment (different tracks, ambient temperatures, tire changes, etc).

Incorrect. That is indeed part of what they do, but a larger caliper and (more importantly) a bigger pad represent more mass in the brake system. More mass, particularly in the friction material, will allow a slower overall temperature rise for a given braking effort. This could easily mean the difference between a brake setup that will give you an entire session and one that will create a pucker moment going into turn one halfway through your time on track.

While it is contrary to increasing performance in every other regard, my mantra for brake upgrades is simple: when in doubt, add mass.

Can I get partial credit at least?

Our experience has been that better pads are #1, then ducting, and we still use OEM brakes, so we never made it there.

Also, data logging has helped us identify brake-destroying behavior. Robert used to go out and turn similar lap times to me and Ricky, but he would often bring the brakes back destroyed after a 2-hour session, while Ricky and I brought them back like new. He has since modified his braking and is still fast, but much less hard on brakes. All three of us brake very differently.

One other huge factor for us was the front-rear bias. The stock Integra proportioning valve was too heavily weighted to the front for track conditions. Switching to an adjustable prop valve and adjusting the bias a little more towards the rear has made a huge difference in our braking performance. The car is much more stable under hard braking and not only stops faster, but it is also much easier to manage weight transfer.

We have a relatively light car (2350 pounds) and can barely make it to 100 MPH (104 at the end of the VIR front straight on a good day), and have no ABS or other stability control technology, so our experience may not be 100% applicable to a new Camaro, but here are our choices for track pads when on street tires:

Carbotech XP8, our current favorite on street tires, holds up reasonably well to heat and very easy to modulate. We mostly like these because they are so easy to modulate on corner entry, and I trail brake deep into corners. The dust is non-corrosive, not that we care.

Hawk Blue, cheap and holds up to heat very well, also lasts a long time and is the easiest to find. We have used these before if the XP8's are not available and they work fine. Not as precise or easy to modulate as the Carbotech, but will definitely get you through the weekend. Dust is corrosive, so don't let it get wet and then dry on the wheels.

Porterfield R4-E, holds up to heat pretty well and is relatively easy to modulate, plus lasts for a decent amount of time. Dust is corrosive, so wash it off.


That's mostly it. As I said before, we've used HP+ and AX6 pads too, but we have to take it easy on the brakes if we want them to make it through a weekend. Hell, I've used cheap Autozone pads, but that was after destroying everything else that we had and I really had to baby them.


Looking at the Camaro, there is an aftermarket duct kit for it, although you'd have to do a little fab work to get the inlet ducts in there in a way that keeps the car looking nice.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

Sure. Just understand that partially right brakes are kind of like being partially pregnant.

Roger's experience is pretty typical and illustrates the progression most people should take unless there is a well documented weak point in their particular brake configuration.

How much is an OTS ducting solution for a 5th gen Camaro? For an S197 they are quite pricey, and really don't fit well so I built my own as seen here. Like I said, these have doubled my pad life so it was totally worth the effort. That, and I like to build stuff.

_________________
Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

It's $276: http://www.jdpmotorsports.com/quantum-c ... ss-13430cp

We built our own for the Duff car, and it was cheaper, but involves a lot of zip ties and is probably not pretty enough for someone with a nice car. Our main problem was making sure that the hose cleared the crank pulley on the driver side, but those of you with longitudinal powertrains probably won't have that issue.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

The only potential issue that I see with adding brake ducts to our cars is the power steering coolers we both have installed. One user on Camaro5 seems to have mounted his in a reasonable area without much problem (front air dam):



Where he's placed the inlet is where we've routed some hoses for the power steering coolers. Would take some finagling, but it might still be feasible. Something to consider, anyways. The better solution, in the short term, might just to get some different pads for the September VIR Full HPDE - depends on how my availability works out, as well as living situation.

Speaking of (and slightly off-topic), but Chad and I are moving our separate ways very soon - He's moving out to Pittsboro (won't have a garage/solid driveway), while I'm looking for a house, and will likely have to move into an apartment until I find one. That means I'll likely not have a place to work on my car at for a bit. Anyone know of any self-serve garages? I've heard of them, but have never been able to find one -- I'm not certain any exist in the North Carolina area. I'd rather not have to pay a shop to do all my work for me! I know it's a long shot, but figured I would ask.

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I think where those are wouldn't really be an issue to modify a space for the power steering cooler lines.

I'll probably just try some better brake pads first anyway, chances are that will be all I need for my driving skill anyway, at least in the near future. I'll probably pickup some spare rotors to keep with the track pads too.

_________________
2017 Autocross Chief of Tech

2000 E Street Miata
2015 Focus SE EcoBoost 6 speed
2015 Fiesta ST (Wife's ride)
2012 Yamaha FZ1 sorta crotch rocket? All I know is 150HP and 487 lbs is fun!