THSCC Forums

I posted on FB and didn't get a response so I'll post on here too. Is red group only getting 3 sessions on Sunday? My guess is that there is something wrong with the schedule since white group has classroom sessions.

If red is only getting 3 sessions I want to go ahead and get my anger out of the way now instead of at VIR.

Zach just mentioned that the schedule is goofed up. They're working on it.

Thanks for pointing it out, James.

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2015-2017 President
2014 Track VP
2013 Autox VP

2002 Subaru WRX [dd]
2002 Honda S2000 STR #3 (retired...for now)
1992 Acura Integra ChumpCar #118 (retired)
2004 Toyota 4Runner V8

http://beastmoderacing.com

Some might say the instructor group could use a classroom session. (students aren't supposed to get rides in a white session. I have. I'll leave it there.)

Remember: those who can, do; those who can't, teach.

And those who can't teach, teach gym.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

The links in the e-mails that went out should show a fixed schedule.

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Stephen Westerfield
2009 Infiniti M35 | 2007 Honda Fit Sport | 2005 Ford Mustang GT |2000 GMC Sierra |1992 Acura Integra LS | Super Westerfield Bros Acura Integra

Students aren't supposed to get rides in the white group? I must have missed that memo.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

Riding with your instructor has always been encouraged. What session would that be if not white?

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2001 Honda S2000 - SOLD
2012 Boss 302
2003 BMW 330i

I don't take them out in White, unless it's Ricky. I try to take them out in a student group as close to their group (skill-wise) as scheduling will allow. I want them to see skills and practices that I want them to be thinking about exercising. The purpose of giving a student a ride is to demonstrate what you want them to do and how you want them to do it. I brake early and in a straight line with a Green group student in the car, etc. In White group, they will see some very fast driving and a lot of stuff that I don't want them to try, like passing offline in a corner with no point-by. White group is also my track time; it's basically my payment for instructing, and I want to be able to work on stuff that I want to work on, some of which would be inappropriate to do with a student in the car, especially that thing where I spin out in Hogpen and bounce off of a tire wall.

I don't know if that is codified policy (I don't see it in the instructor's guide), but I believe that it was discussed at the instructor training. Or that may have been at some other instructor training or in another instructor guide.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

An instructor can go out in any group at any time. What goes on in white is not something most students should see. While the instructor giving the ride can dial back what they're doing, the other cars on track won't.

You both have lost me. While I appreciate the skill and speed in white is high I don't see why you would shelter a student from it. If anything it helped "slow" my sessions down.

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2001 Honda S2000 - SOLD
2012 Boss 302
2003 BMW 330i

Because some students will try to do what they see someone else do, sometimes without discussing it with you. I've had this happen while I was in the passenger seat. On any demonstration drive, you only want them to see what you want them to do. I can take a green student out in yellow or yellow in green or blue in yellow, but not green in white. I suppose that I can take a student out in white and explain that they shouldn't do the things that they are about to see, but I don't think that it is a good idea. The purpose of a demonstration lap is to show your student how you want them to drive.

Of course I've been an instructor for exactly 4 events at this point, so I may have no idea what I'm talking about, but based on what I've heard and read, I'd rather take a student out in a run group that is similar to theirs.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

The control instructors feel in the car is a thinly veiled illusion. I think most people understand their skill level and the instructor group will be the best place to get a real sense of relative performance of vehicles.

This wanting to shield people from good driving is nonsense.

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2006 Civic Si - #24 HS for 2015

2005 GMC Sierra
1991 318is Garage Ornament

I think that I haven't communicated effectively.

Nobody wants to shield people from good driving. Also, giving the student a real sense of the relative performance of a vehicle is not anything that I'm interested in. If I wanted to do that, then I'd instruct more at NASA and drive the student's cars for a session. That's not to say that it's a bad thing, it's just not something that I'm interested in.

What I want to do is to teach and coach the student in 1-3 specific skills or techniques throughout the course of the weekend. That teaching and coaching will increase the student's ability to control their vehicle and improve the student's confidence in their ability to drive their vehicle in a high-performance environment. As a result of that instruction, the student will be safer, have more fun, and be faster on track than they were before the weekend.

I only want to show the student what I want them to work on because that will be more effective than showing them things that I don't want them to work on, which could provide distractions and be less effective. Because I want to provide the best service to the student that I can, I want to be as effective as possible in producing the three results (1:safer, 2:more fun, 3:faster) that I believe will provide the best service to the student.

So any time that I have with the student should be focused on the 1-3 specific skills or techniques that I want the student to work on in order for me to be as effective as I can be at producing results for the student. Anything else is a potential distraction and could make me less effective at producing results for the student.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."