THSCC Forums

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do27R6iFMxQ


yep, bmwusa has Dirk Mueller driving a m3 i think the 6 banger. Around VIR full course, way faster than our old e30 could ever go.

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hey yall,watch this...

This car has a V8 Pete.

Now if BMW would only build a street car with double wishbone suspension and a rear mounted transaxle like this car has.

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2006 Civic Si - #24 HS for 2015

2005 GMC Sierra
1991 318is Garage Ornament

That's interesting; after some discussion this weekend about the proper line through T1 for slow cars ( Turn in at the arrow and track out to the red dirt spot at the end of the outside T2 gator: i.e. - "momentum line") and for cars with power (going in until you run out of pavement and squaring off the corner); I was talking to Ron about it on another occasion and I believe that his take (I am not Ron's official spokesperson, so if I got this wrong, then I apologize) and mine are that the momentum line is the correct line for slow cars and for powerful cars. People with powerful cars seem to disagree. Not having a car with any acceleration to speak of, I can't test my assumptions, but in the video the driver clearly takes the momentum line, and he clearly has a powerful car and seems to be proficient at driving it (ALMS Champion, FIA GT2 Champion, etc). I believe that this is proof that I am right and that anyone who disagrees with me is wrong.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

I'm not the resident expert, but I've driven VIR many thousands of miles in slow cars and powerful cars. IMO, there is only one line through T1-2, and it's the same one you prefer.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

All cars are momentum cars, it's just that some cars can't dig themselves out of a slow corner with 400ft-lbs of torque on tap.

+1 on this, I’m using the same line with the Miata and the Porsche, difference in lap time between the 2, 20sec. slower in the Miata.

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Patrice
1973 911 former track and AX car.
2016 VW GTI
2002 Nissan Sentra (Olivier car)
2012 Nissan Juke (Kathy car)
2010 Suzuki Kizashi (Audrey car)

(fix "lumpy" and test this theory :-))

I was quietly thinking this over after the yellow "one gear" session. Why wouldn't everyone drive a momentum line? But the high powered RWD cars really cannot apply all that power mid-turn, and that's what everyone wants to do.[*] Given I'm driving the Duff Bear "torqueless wonder" honda civic, the one gear exercise is more-or-less standard driving... T1 & T12 are the only places we need to go as low as 3rd, and the only reason to go to 5th is to save the engine. (duffy's top speed is ~110mph which is rev limit in 4, once you go to 5 it's not getting any faster.)

[*] Ride with me behind the Nova and you'll see what I mean... on every straight, he's a f'ing rocket. And then I'm eating his bumper through the next set of corners. (it's a bit annoying that he won't get off the gas to let me by, but the straight are his fun part. btw, he was doing that last year as well.)

Hey Patrice, thanks for following me for a couple of laps and for the advice on T10 and T14. I moved my braking zones back for both turns and ended up taking 2 seconds off of my lap times in subsequent sessions.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

Interesting ... please share I can understand that for T10, but in T14 the later I brake generally the better my lap times! Was that observation more to do with "hugging" the apex curbing at T14 rather than squaring it off?

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I stated it poorly, I meant that I now brake later for both turns. I was braking way too early for 14 and coming off the throttle way too early for 10. Patrice pointed both items out to me after following me for a couple of laps.

I'm finding that squaring anything off in a momentum car is a bad idea. I used to do it everywhere when I had a car with power, and it was probably a bad idea then, but it felt good. I'm gradually weaning myself off of it. Ron made me stop doing it in T1 last year, Kraig Klippel made me stop doing it in T3 earlier this year, and Bill Foster stopped me from doing it in T11 this past weekend. Every time I stop squaring turns off I make big gains in my lap times.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

The problem is we have imstructors needing remedial coursework and I will leave it at that.

VIR is very much a one line track. For all cars.

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2006 Civic Si - #24 HS for 2015

2005 GMC Sierra
1991 318is Garage Ornament

Yeah, I really didn't want to go there, because instructors have been very helpful to me over the years and given me a lot of great advice, but the T1 line is something that I've heard a lot of disagreement on, even by people who should know the right answer. I was originally taught to go in deep and square off T1 when I started driving VIR 8 years ago, although I don't remember who told me that. Ron gave me a "Why the hell are you doing that?" talk when he saw where I was turning in for T1 last year, and it really took data logs of someone else (Kraig Klippel) driving my car on the same day before I realized just how much faster it is to drive the correct line. Between the braking zone and the turn-in, I was losing over half a second to Kraig in T1. Now I'm actually ahead of him by T2, but until I master left foot braking for T3, he will be ahead of me before T4.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

I would say that I have been VERY privileged in the instructors I've had at VIR.

James Clay
Seth Thomas
Randy Meuller
Steve Bassen
Barry Battle
Evan Levine

I hadn't driven much the last two years and had forgotten the finer points of VIR Full somewhat, and I did the Chump race so I was close to where I needed to be. Evan whipped me back into shape fully once I got used to driving the Spec E30 again. With a little more seat time I'll be back to where I was 5 years ago. I can't wait to get out on fresh tires and give it a go. Here is the line, Dirk is similar in the BMW E90 M3 but he left a lot on the table in T3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGbmeDb_5Fw

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2006 Civic Si - #24 HS for 2015

2005 GMC Sierra
1991 318is Garage Ornament

That looks similar to what I was trying to do, with the exception of 15, where I barely touch the gator. I'd love to see the datalogs of what your braking was through 15 as I'm inconsistent there. I need to work on 3 next time I'm out. I know what I want to do there; I just haven't gotten to where I'm doing it at any kind of speed. This past weekend I got to where I'm consistently WOT from 4 until 10, which was a major accomplishment for me, and I started not braking for 11 until I turn in at the 1 marker and trail braking through 11, which is also a big departure from what I was doing before. Next time out I plan on working on 10, 3, and 15, but that probably won't be until next year. I've got LeMons in a week and a half and I'll probably do the NCCAR event in November, as well as some autocrosses if anything is convenient.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

i haven't downloaded it yet but i have traqmate data from max if you want it. probably better power/weight than the duffmobile but otherwise fairly similar.