Holy brake abuse, Batman!

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:58 pm

Do ya think these calipers got a bit hot?

These pads were brand new Hawk HPS pads on Friday night before CMP. Here's how they looked Sunday afternoon - I had to sit out my last session.

I've never seen a pad bend before. :shock:

Here are the stock 11" brakes I just took off.

I picked up some Speed6 calipers & rotors and am working on installing them tonight. 12.5" rotors and 40% larger pads. Maybe these will work better. :thumbsup:

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

for the love of god man don't use hps on track, they're completely unsuitable for anything but the most timid driver. at a minimum use hp+

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:18 pm

Jason Tower wrote:

for the love of god man don't use hps on track, they're completely unsuitable for anything but the most timid driver. at a minimum use hp+

Yeah, I know, but I had them on the shelf and had no other use for them since I don't drive the car on the street anymore. I figured I'd burn 'em up on a track day - I guess I did. I got HP+ in the new calipers. :thumbsup:

BTW, I ran OEM type pads from Advance Auto at VIR in Sept (again, I had them on the car already) and had no overheating - just some fade. So I figured the HPS's would just wear fast like the OEMs. I'm just stunned at how hot the brakes got at CMP.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:53 pm

Single piston calipers will taper pads no matter which compound you use. The bent backing plate is another situation all together. Bias issues?

TomFreeman · **Posted:** Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:07 pm

steve remchak wrote:

Single piston calipers will taper pads no matter which compound you use. The bent backing plate is another situation all together. Bias issues?

Nah, no bias issues...that's a "I burned up my friction material,all the heat transferred to the backing plate, so the harder I pressed the pedal, the more the single piston bends the backing plate" situation.

I've seen that happen at VIR-S and CMP.

Cash - I know you've already sprung for the MS6 brakes...but real race pads would likely do the job with the stock brakes. Something like a DTC-60 or equivalent. Of course...It's hard to go wrong with more brake.

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

The minimum I'd run on VIR-N is HP+, the minimum I'd run at CMP is HT-10/DTC60.

Impressive work, though.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:42 am

Cash, you are driving on a race track, why do you keep putting street pads on the car? HP+ isn't a race pad either. Maybe OK at VIR-F, but you would have melted HP+ at CMP as well (a track known for melting brakes).

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:22 am

Scott Johnson wrote:

Cash, you are driving on a race track, why do you keep putting street pads on the car? HP+ isn't a race pad either. Maybe OK at VIR-F, but you would have melted HP+ at CMP as well (a track known for melting brakes).

My 2001 Mustang pretty much wore out a set of pretty much high end Carbotech's (I forget the the version but they were either the "best" or "the best for my car" at that time for track use) at the THSCC/Triangle Z's VIR north event in early 2001. Rotors and tires also.

I've been there done that with street pads on my 88 5.0 Mustang. At Mid Ohio I bent the backing plates badly and the pistons made deep cookie cutter impressions in the backing plates.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:51 am

Scott Johnson wrote:

Cash, you are driving on a race track, why do you keep putting street pads on the car? HP+ isn't a race pad either. Maybe OK at VIR-F, but you would have melted HP+ at CMP as well (a track known for melting brakes).

I agree with Scott----If your driving is agressive enough to warrent cooling ducts then why the hell are you using street pads??????? The bent backing plate is indicating that you melted the brake material under the piston. That smacks of higher temps than the street pads can tolerate. The larger Rotors will help but you NEED race pads.

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:22 am

Ummm - I guess experience is what you get when you don't get what you want?

Thanks for the input. :thumbsup:

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:39 pm

OK, just so you don’t think I’m a COMPLETE dumbass, I went back and looked at my notes and receipts:

Last fall at VIR-F I ran basically stock except the car was lightened by 600lbs - stock wheels, street tires, stock suspensions, OEM street pads, Valvoline fluid. No problems with the brakes, but I only ran 2 of the three days because of a blown engine.

Over the winter I replaced the engine, did a bunch of suspension upgrades and (I just now checked my receipt from KNS) - I had bought Hawk HP+ front and rear. I did 3 or 4 autocrosses to sort out the car and returned to VIR-F in Sept this time with suspension upgrades and wider, stickier tires (went from 215, 400WR to 245, 140WR). No brake problems Saturday, but I skipped my fourth session due to rain. During the fourth session on Sunday, the pedal seemed a bit spongey (I was still using Valvoline fluid). After the event the rears were hardly worn (the car’s weight bias is 63/37) and the fronts were 3/4 worn out, but showed no other ill effects.

In preparation for CMP (having never been there) I replaced the fluid with Castrol GT LMA (509 boiling point) and ordered new pads for the front. This is where the dumbass part comes in, for some reason I thought I had previously bought HPS (I didn’t go back and check my receipt from 10 months earlier), so I ended up going to CMP with HPS on the front and HP+ on the rear - Doh!

So now I have bigger front brakes and HP+ all around in preparation for VIR next spring. Sounds like I should consider something different for CMP next year.

TomFreeman · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:15 pm

Cash Davidson wrote:

So now I have bigger front brakes and HP+ all around in preparation for VIR next spring. Sounds like I should consider something different for CMP next year.

Your car is a full track car, and from what I saw at VIR-F, has no pretensions of being streetable. Ditch the street pads altogether. As long as you don't have any kind of bias or lockup issues, you will have much more consistent brake performance from a race pad, and the more consistent the car is, the less you have to think about it, and most importantly you will learn more quickly.

I know we preach that race tires mask mistakes in the learning process, but I firmly believe that same axiom does not apply to race pads. I've been an hpde student for a long time, and I've used race pads for every event beyond my first. Do it, you won't regret it.

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:01 pm

I hear ya. Hawk only makes the HPS, HP+ and DTC-60 for the front of my car and HPS, HP+, DTC-60, DTC-30 and HT-10 for the rear. Should I be looking at Carbotech or go with DTC-60 on the front and HP+ on the rear?

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

DTC-60 on all 4 corners.

TomFreeman · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:58 pm

I'm not a big fan of Carbotech for multiple reasons. Their products work well right up until the point where the no longer work. You get very little, if any warning before they go away.

I'd go with DTC-60 on all 4 corners as well. Performance Friction is another that I'd certainly consider.

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