n00b question

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:34 pm

WHAT HE SAID :shock:

x2

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

JenniferBedell wrote:

My only concern with the Elise is that someone else's bad moment, or a mechanical failure, could result in $30k+ of totalled car that I have no way of recouping (I'm assuming it's impossible to get collision insurance that will cover track events -- correct me if I'm wrong).

NC and Texas do NOT have any exemptions for HPDEs. If you get into a wreck at an HPDE and you have insurance in NC, the insurance company has to pay out... that said, they probably won't want to pay out and will probably want to drop your ass after they pay out your claim.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:17 pm

Andrew Jonell wrote:

JenniferBedell wrote:

My only concern with the Elise is that someone else's bad moment, or a mechanical failure, could result in $30k+ of totalled car that I have no way of recouping (I'm assuming it's impossible to get collision insurance that will cover track events -- correct me if I'm wrong).

NC and Texas do NOT have any exemptions for HPDEs. If you get into a wreck at an HPDE and you have insurance in NC, the insurance company has to pay out... that said, they probably won't want to pay out and will probably want to drop your ass after they pay out your claim.

well yeah, unless you have the secret recipe.............

or you buy "per event HPDE insurance"

most of us are self-insured so to speak.

BretLuter · **Posted:** Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:20 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

First, the saying about pushing the car off the cliff is related to racing cars. We were told this the first class room session for competition school. It should not apply to DE.

Any one with any car should feel comfortable bringing their car to a DE event.

If you are hitting tire walls or balling up cars at a DE event, you should seriously consider another hobby :-)

I'm with Jim 100% on this.

I know things have happened at DE's where people have balled up cars, and hit other cars, etc. BUT, I think it's up to the driver how hard they should push their car (and themself) when participating in a DE.

If you have trouble with impulse control and are prone to the "red mist", then you should be very worried about what is likely to happen to the car you choose to put on track. In addition, you might consider what would happen if you did hit another car while participating in a DE. I for one would expect the hitter to pay for repairs on the hittee's car.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:42 pm

BretLuter wrote:

jimpastorius wrote:

First, the saying about pushing the car off the cliff is related to racing cars. We were told this the first class room session for competition school. It should not apply to DE.

Any one with any car should feel comfortable bringing their car to a DE event.

If you are hitting tire walls or balling up cars at a DE event, you should seriously consider another hobby :-)

I'm with Jim 100% on this.

I know things have happened at DE's where people have balled up cars, and hit other cars, etc. BUT, I think it's up to the driver how hard they should push their car (and themself) when participating in a DE.

If you have trouble with impulse control and are prone to the "red mist", then you should be very worried about what is likely to happen to the car you choose to put on track. In addition, you might consider what would happen if you did hit another car while participating in a DE. I for one would expect the hitter to pay for repairs on the hittee's car.

that is also a debateable situation Mr. Luter.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:04 pm

Prepped, logbooks, ready to go.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... &viewitem=

E30M3 in raceready condition. Not a bad price, either--that's a little more than some people are asking for their Spec E30s... Probably need some adjustments for HPDE, like nets, second seat etc.

Or, buy my E30 HPDE car so I can buy this one. Cuz, you know you have my best interests at heart, right? :wink:

edit: forgot you were trying to get a dual-purpose car...this may not be classed where you want it, but since it says ITR/E it may be DSP/SM-eligible (not a rules expert, but i thought cams were excluded in IT*)

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:59 pm

BretLuter wrote:

jimpastorius wrote:

First, the saying about pushing the car off the cliff is related to racing cars. We were told this the first class room session for competition school. It should not apply to DE.

Any one with any car should feel comfortable bringing their car to a DE event.

If you are hitting tire walls or balling up cars at a DE event, you should seriously consider another hobby :-)

I'm with Jim 100% on this.

I know things have happened at DE's where people have balled up cars, and hit other cars, etc. BUT, I think it's up to the driver how hard they should push their car (and themself) when participating in a DE.

If you have trouble with impulse control and are prone to the "red mist", then you should be very worried about what is likely to happen to the car you choose to put on track. In addition, you might consider what would happen if you did hit another car while participating in a DE. I for one would expect the hitter to pay for repairs on the hittee's car.

I disagree with both you and Jim on this one... I've seen three or four TIMES as many cars damaged in HPDE's than I have in races. 13 cars this year in turn 6 at VIR, two of that number today. Two more this week end in south bend...... and thats only the events I attended. Many cars are damaged in HPDE, don't put something out there that you can't afford to lose!!!!!!

BretLuter · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:35 pm

Bernie Baake wrote:

BretLuter wrote:

jimpastorius wrote:

First, the saying about pushing the car off the cliff is related to racing cars. We were told this the first class room session for competition school. It should not apply to DE.

Any one with any car should feel comfortable bringing their car to a DE event.

If you are hitting tire walls or balling up cars at a DE event, you should seriously consider another hobby :-)

I'm with Jim 100% on this.

I know things have happened at DE's where people have balled up cars, and hit other cars, etc. BUT, I think it's up to the driver how hard they should push their car (and themself) when participating in a DE.

If you have trouble with impulse control and are prone to the "red mist", then you should be very worried about what is likely to happen to the car you choose to put on track. In addition, you might consider what would happen if you did hit another car while participating in a DE. I for one would expect the hitter to pay for repairs on the hittee's car.

I disagree with both you and Jim on this one... I've seen three or four TIMES as many cars damaged in HPDE's than I have in races. 13 cars this year in turn 6 at VIR, two of that number today. Two more this week end in south bend...... and thats only the events I attended. Many cars are damaged in HPDE, don't put something out there that you can't afford to lose!!!!!!

Bernie,

that may be true, but IMHO, there's something seriously wrong if a DE participant doesn't have enough sense to know when to back off. As Jim said- "If you are hitting tire walls or balling up cars at a DE event, you should seriously consider another hobby"

This is one reason that I hung up my instructor helmet a couple of years ago.

BretLuter · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:40 pm

steve remchak wrote:

BretLuter wrote:

jimpastorius wrote:

First, the saying about pushing the car off the cliff is related to racing cars. We were told this the first class room session for competition school. It should not apply to DE.

Any one with any car should feel comfortable bringing their car to a DE event.

If you are hitting tire walls or balling up cars at a DE event, you should seriously consider another hobby :-)

I'm with Jim 100% on this.

I know things have happened at DE's where people have balled up cars, and hit other cars, etc. BUT, I think it's up to the driver how hard they should push their car (and themself) when participating in a DE.

If you have trouble with impulse control and are prone to the "red mist", then you should be very worried about what is likely to happen to the car you choose to put on track. In addition, you might consider what would happen if you did hit another car while participating in a DE. I for one would expect the hitter to pay for repairs on the hittee's car.

that is also a debateable situation Mr. Luter.

Debateable to you maybe, but to me it's pretty cut and dried.

One of the first thing I usually hear at DE's is "This is NOT a race". If you are doing DE's because you want to be racing, then you need to go ahead and take that step and move on to W2W racing.

The (unfortunate) reality is that some people don't seem to "get" the whole premise that a DE should be more correctly referred to as a "Driver's SCHOOL". You're there to LEARN, not to smash up a bunch of cars.

(OK, I know no one goes to a DE with the intention of smashing up a car, but as I said, some people just don't know their limits, and don't know when to dial it back a bit).

I know quite a few people around here have smashed up cars at DE's (theirs and others), but my opinion still stands.

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:05 pm

The non-zero chance of hitting someone's fluid or a tire/wheel bearing eating it is enough for me to stick to the "don't bring what you can't lose" philosophy on track.

Paranoid? Perhaps but I'm a bit more risk adverse than most.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

This is just silly. The statement has already been made that your insurance covers you at an HPDE, so given that driving around on the public streets and highways is waaaaaaayyyyy more risky than driving around a race track in a controlled environment, I don't see the problem here.

I saw a small fireplace-sized log fall off a POS truck on the Interstate last week and hit a car. Never seen that happen at VIR.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:03 pm

silly? what you talkin' about Willis? :lol:

it is silly Kevin, but the reality is sh88t happens on the track too.

Bret, i have slapped a tire wall at VIR twice. it was a learning experience both times. some people have to learn things the hard way. i personally lead with my forehead way too much. :oops:

but, my incidents did not have as much to do with not dialing back in a school environment as they did having not enough schooling at the time of the incident.

1st time, ran over something left by the motorcycle guys in 1 or 2 that pierced the right rear and caused the car to wiggle three times before i couldn't catch it anymore and exited stage right into the tire wall between 3 and 4. a few feet short of the bare Aarmco. if i had a clue what was going on at the time it might have stayed out of the wall.

2nd time, Red Group. probably should have known better. came thru Hog Pen but was oddly positioned at track-out. i decided straight off was better than yanking the wheel to over correct. i am fairly sure i did not think about stopping the car as i knew there were acres of space out there. yeah, not so much. only a few feet from the bare Aarmco that time. pretty good lick right there.

3rd time, no damage. steering locked (a whole other story) at the top of 14. hard on the brakes once i hit the grass and stopped well short of contact surfaces.

seat time, seat time, seat time. shit happens.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:19 pm

Kevin Allen wrote:

This is just silly. The statement has already been made that your insurance covers you at an HPDE, so given that driving around on the public streets and highways is waaaaaaayyyyy more risky than driving around a race track in a controlled environment, I don't see the problem here.

Spoken like someone who has never hit a wall hard.

Both my big hits were in caged Miatas. I can't imagine the same scenarios in cars with no rollcage that were going even faster. Insurance? In that case you might consider LIFE insurance rather than who is going to pay what for your car.

--Donnie

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Actually, spoken like someone who drives a Subaru. Miata isn't much of a rally car. :roll:

jeremy gast · **Posted:** Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:56 am

but i am thinking about making it ONE!!!! :twisted:

Kevin Allen wrote:

Actually, spoken like someone who drives a Subaru. Miata isn't much of a rally car. :roll:

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