n00b question

JenniferBedell · **Posted:** Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:05 pm

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

http://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/ They cover all our events. The deductible is like $2000 or 2500 if something happens, but that's a whole lot better than $30k plus.

Oh wow, that totally changes the equation. Are all the cars that show up covered as part of the registration fee, or does each driver purchase his own policy?

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

JenniferBedell wrote:

DickRasmussen wrote:

How do the clutches and transmissions hold up on "used hard" Elises? I get the impression that a lot of owners shift these syncro boxes just like a racing Hewland is shifted . . . not good for longevity with a street gearbox. :cry:

Thanks for mentioning it -- I'll have to check on that.

I've done enough DEs with my dad at Heartland Park to know that I would love to do it regularly (I get post-track depression every time I come home). In spite of one silly spin (seriously, don't pop the clutch coming around T13) and one very mild off, I have a a lot of confidence in my ability to stay inside the limits of the car and my driving. I have never felt unsafe in stock Z3s and Boxsters. Maria is right, and I will spin my MR2 at autocross without apology, but track is a different venue. :wink:

My only concern with the Elise is that someone else's bad moment, or a mechanical failure, could result in $30k+ of totalled car that I have no way of recouping (I'm assuming it's impossible to get collision insurance that will cover track events -- correct me if I'm wrong). It makes me wonder if what I should be looking for is a lower-priced prepped car that someone else has already spent a decade or more flogging around the track, so that my financial risk is limited in a worst-case scenario.

I'd love to do a professional school at some point, but I doubt it will reduce my desire to get back to the track three or four times a year. It'll probably just make it a thousand times worse. :twisted:

never track a car you're not prepared to walk away from (or push off a cliff, whatever). it sounds like you've already had a few hits on the pipe, if you don't want to risk it i'd totally suggest finding a track-prepped car that you can flog mercilessly. an e36 bmw is usually my first recommendation, plenty of them out there, many with the track mods already taken care of.

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:49 pm

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

JenniferBedell wrote:

(I'm assuming it's impossible to get collision insurance that will cover track events -- correct me if I'm wrong).

http://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/ They cover all our events. The deductible is like $2000 or 2500 if something happens, but that's a whole lot better than $30k plus.

Also, you should talk to Cline. In NC (only state that does) you're covered for HPDE's as long as you have an instructor in the car.

Quote:

It makes me wonder if what I should be looking for is a lower-priced prepped car that someone else has already spent a decade or more flogging around the track, so that my financial risk is limited in a worst-case scenario.

I've heard a couple of things said in this regard. First, don't put anything on the track that you can't wad up and walk away from. Second, it's generally better (cheaper) to buy a track prepared car than to buy a car and prepare it for track.

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

Gwen Baake wrote:

Also, you should talk to Cline. In NC (only state that does) you're covered for HPDE's as long as you have an instructor in the car.

what if you *are* an instructor? that means there's an instructor in the car at all times!

Stephen Westerfield · **Posted:** Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:06 pm

JenniferBedell wrote:

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

http://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/ They cover all our events. The deductible is like $2000 or 2500 if something happens, but that's a whole lot better than $30k plus.

Oh wow, that totally changes the equation. Are all the cars that show up covered as part of the registration fee, or does each driver purchase his own policy?

I should have said "They *offer* coverage at all our events". Each participant must apply themselves if they want it.

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:52 pm

Jason Tower wrote:

Gwen Baake wrote:

Also, you should talk to Cline. In NC (only state that does) you're covered for HPDE's as long as you have an instructor in the car.

what if you *are* an instructor? that means there's an instructor in the car at all times!

Jason,
That's only for "education" as in HPD"Education", so *no* would be my guess. Time Trials are a different animal, timed, so considered racing-thus, again, no.

Good try though. :wink:

There's actually another thread somewhere on this forum that goes into all of this. It's been several years ago now, IIRC.

Brad Mackey · **Posted:** Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:07 pm

To get back to the original question relative to T-Top cars, here's what is in our Tech Guide:

"5.3 Convertibles
Convertibles must have a roll bar to participate in the HPDE. This is a
requirement of all venues where we currently hold events. Hard top
vehicles do not require roll bars to participate in the HPDE.
5.3.1 Targa or T-Top models are not classified as convertibles and
thus do not require a roll bar."

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

WalterHouston wrote:

RobLupella wrote:

(well... yap yap , blah, blah, ho hum, e i e i o...

Also, I think you have LS envy!

Bingo!!!! Give that man the prize ;-)

Nice try Rob... had my morning coffee BEFORE i read your post... LOL

We now return you to whether you should put your $30K sports car on track. I think I would. It's boring driving it around the street.

JenniferBedell · **Posted:** Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:57 pm

Thanks Brad, direct rules quote FTW!

I test-drove a new Corvette today on a lark... y'all are not kidding about that horsepower! :shock:

RobLupella · **Posted:** Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:35 pm

JenniferBedell wrote:

Thanks Brad, direct rules quote FTW!

I test-drove a new Corvette today on a lark... y'all are not kidding about that horsepower! :shock:

It can be fun. Once you get some its hard to go back. Those two cars are different but both fun. Drive a bunch of stuff and get what you like. HPDE is fun and it is possible to keep off the green stuff most of the time. Most of us don't think that going off is a sign of adulthood.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:01 pm

RobLupella wrote:

JenniferBedell wrote:

Thanks Brad, direct rules quote FTW!

I test-drove a new Corvette today on a lark... y'all are not kidding about that horsepower! :shock:

Most of us don't think that going off is a sign of adulthood.

i believe what Rob meant to say was.........most of us that have a tire wall or two to our credit realize it ain't the place you want to spend your weekends.

South Course, Rob?

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:32 am

First, the saying about pushing the car off the cliff is related to racing cars. We were told this the first class room session for competition school. It should not apply to DE.

Any one with any car should feel comfortable bringing their car to a DE event.

If you are hitting tire walls or balling up cars at a DE event, you should seriously consider another hobby :-)

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:27 am

jimpastorius wrote:

First, the saying about pushing the car off the cliff is related to racing cars. We were told this the first class room session for competition school. It should not apply to DE.

Any one with any car should feel comfortable bringing their car to a DE event.

If you are hitting tire walls or balling up cars at a DE event, you should seriously consider another hobby :-)

hey, hey, hey now Jim. i thought that such behavior was expected of Red Group students. that is how you know you are qualified to become an Instructor. :twisted:

RobLupella · **Posted:** Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:10 pm

steve remchak wrote:

RobLupella wrote:

JenniferBedell wrote:

Thanks Brad, direct rules quote FTW!

I test-drove a new Corvette today on a lark... y'all are not kidding about that horsepower! :shock:

Most of us don't think that going off is a sign of adulthood.

i believe what Rob meant to say was.........most of us that have a tire wall or two to our credit realize it ain't the place you want to spend your weekends.

South Course, Rob?

Ummmm no Grand East :oops:

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Jennifer,

To your earlier questions. Bringing a $30K car out on the track should concern you. Honestly the number on the car cost really comes down to what you can financially absorb. Don't think that only D2D racers need be concerned with balling up cars. Cars break, yours or the one in front of you that just dropped oil/coolant/parts on the track, you make a mistake, stuff happens. You can hit a wall. The odds are fairly low. If you listen to your instructor, keep your speeds down, a cool head, and a little bit of luck. You should be ok.

That said, I took my $30K, at the time, Z06 on track. Some people said it was bad idea others said heck yeah enjoy it. Don't worry what others think about that part. It's your decision. For me having a Z06 to putt down the highway was boring. Autocross was fun but never really what I wanted the Z06 for. At the time this track insurance you see offered now didn't exist. So I ran the risk of writing off my car. I have put it in a tire wall at very low speed. Scratched it up good. I swear the front wheel hit something slippery as my steering just stopped grip. It could also have been a mental error. It really doesn't matter when it comes to the car. It still got beat up. Luckily I didn't. The downside is needing to paint the whole front of the car and a couple of parts needed. The upside is I said the heck with that and now will use it mainly as a track car. It won't be pretty. I got over it. Saves me a lot of time waxing... :lol:

Which brings me to another point. You may be young and in good shape. Maybe not. If you hit something hard. It will still hurt, a lot, at best... My little slide into the tire wall mainly hurt my pride and pissed me off. Didn't physically hurt at all. If I would have hit in several other places I would have been going a lot faster and it would have been much, much worse. There are several members in this club who have had bad offs and hit hard. As there are in many other clubs and groups. Don't be fooled that it can't happen to you.

It is a change from autocross. I enjoy it and prefer to do that for now. It isn't better, it's different. Do both. Just understand your risk for damage increases significantly on track. The more you do it and the more you push to get faster. The risk continues to rise. Just be realistic. All that said I love driving VIR and Road Atlanta. Now I'm off to Sebring and next spring Watkins Glen. I'm checking off my bucket list items since I'm old... :wink:

... and as a plug for the club. Yes THSCC runs one of the better, safer, and more focused programs. You'll enjoy it.

Graham

THSCC Forums

n00b question

Who is online