Comp. License Questions

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:39 am

My advice, come up to VIR this weekend or in October to check out NASA Mid-Atlantic to check things out. There is a world of difference between TT and W2W.

The person to contact for TT in NASA-MA is Jon Felton. You can find his contact information on their site or the NASA forums. He actually has to approve you to run TT. Check the site for rules and regulations on car prep and safety before making any changes.

The world of W2W is totally different. For the NASA, they like for you to come up through their HPDE ranks. You definitively have to run their HPDE 3 a few times. Keep your log book up to date with all events and all comments. I know they respect THSS and this helped me move right into their HPDE 3. But you need documentation.

You apply to their comp school and Corbetto gives you the approval to attend. The same probably holds true in the southeast. Comp school is hell, but you come out of it ready and a changed person :-)

As for the route TT or W2W, I have my opinions...

I race in series that stresses competition, V8 power and low cost. There is no such thing as low cost. My Camaro might be worth 8K on the open market and I probably have well over 25-30K invested for W2W. And it still has a ways to go. Make no mistake, W2W is not a cheap investment. Plus, the first thing in Comp school they tell you, be prepared to push your car off a cliff and walk away from it. If you are not willing to do that, you might as well leave.

Every time I load the car into the trailer, I think it might be the last time I see. But I would not change anything. I is such a rush, my adrenalin started to amp out 5 days ago for VIR this weekend.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:44 am

jimpastorius wrote:

I race in series that stresses competition, V8 power and low cost. There is no such thing as low cost.

The man speaks the truth. Even though Lemons racing is billed as a $500 car, it will cost your team about $3000 before you ever make one lap, and that doesn't count your personal safety gear. If you want to win, that figure goes up. The advantage of Lemons is you get to split the cost between four or more people. If I had to pay to race Lemons by myself there is no way I could afford it.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:54 am

One more thing...take time to visit the different organization's events. Talk to the series director and then actually talk to the racers or TT people. Check out the cars and the level of prep and finally watch the racing (this holds true for W2W, TT or Lemons/Chump).

Yes, you are shopping...it is a major investment. Plus you have to like or respect the people you are competing against. This especially true in W2W. Hell, your life could depend upon it.

I visited SCCA events and NASA events and came away feeling NASA was a better fit for me. I have not regretted the decision.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:55 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

I visited SCCA events and NASA events and came away feeling NASA was a better fit for me. I have not regretted the decision.

Is part of that maybe just that NASA has a better class that fits *you*, though? I'm really asking here as I don't know what class you'd best fit in with your car in SCCA anyway.

While I haven't tried it, I feel like Spec Miata may be healthier and more interesting in SCCA than NASA. So some of it may boil down to what an individual wants to drive, too (rather than a blanket "I like XYZ sanctioning body best" kind of thing). Thoughts there?

--Donnie

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:54 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Is part of that maybe just that NASA has a better class that fits *you*, though? I'm really asking here as I don't know what class you'd best fit in with your car in SCCA anyway.

Actually, I started to investigate W2W before I decided that my 1LE would be sacrifice. All I really knew is that I wanted to race an AMerican V* preferably a GM car.

There was not class in SCCA that the 1LE would fit into since it was too old for A-Sedan. It could run in an IT class..but it would be a waste.

I went to a couple of SCCA races and tracked down AS drivers. I spoke with them and read up on the rules. I came away unimpressed. The handful of drivers just really bitched and moaned. This was late October of 2006.

So I was kind of at a loss. I forget who told me about the Camaro-Mustang Challenge. I had heard of NASA and its reputation was improving. I remember people telling me not to go to their track events in the early 2000's! I spoke with the national director Tony G about CMC and he put me in contact with Kent who is the regional director. That was late December 2006.

I met Kent at my first NASA HPDE in February of 2007. He is a saleperson and roped me in.

All I had to do was gut the car, put a full cage in and I was ready to go...like I said a great salesperson who was enthusiastic about the series. he invited me to paddock with CMC in March of 2007...the rest is history.

I am not slamming SCCA or other organizations. Each have their pluses and minuses. If you are going to venture into W2W, do your research and pick the one that suits you. Hell, if you do it right, you can run multiple organization's events.

Do not rely upon the internet to gather your information. Take your time, visit the different events, meet people and ask questions.

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

Donnie Barnes wrote:

While I haven't tried it, I feel like Spec Miata may be healthier and more interesting in SCCA than NASA.
--Donnie

considering the poor SM turnout at the last few nasa events i've attended that wouldn't surprise me a bit

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:21 am

jimpastorius wrote:

I am not slamming SCCA or other organizations. Each have their pluses and minuses. If you are going to venture into W2W, do your research and pick the one that suits you. Hell, if you do it right, you can run multiple organization's events.

Believe me, I'm not trying to start a debate between the two. When I started back in 2003 I don't think NASA was much of a viable option...at least not compared to SCCA. But I've actually had a NASA license a couple different years recently. Never had a chance to try out their events, though, as scheduling just didn't work out for me.

I guess my only point was that folks should look past the "organization" and directly into the classes themselves for this answer. So I'm agreeing with you, but just trying to add a little bit (probably badly). I know NASA has some healthy stuff in some areas, but in others the SCCA might be the best game. And folks shouldn't forget about what PCA and BMWCCA might have to offer, too, if you're into one of those marques. And of course LeMons and Chumpcar.

--Donnie

MartynWheeler · **Joined:** Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:30 pm **Posts:** 303

jimpastorius wrote:

Plus, the first thing in Comp school they tell you, be prepared to push your car off a cliff and walk away from it.

That reminds me of the time I was working turn 1 at Roebling for an SCCA race, and had a GT3 Pinto lock up the rear end on the straight, break the axle loose, and use it to pole-vault the car towards the corner station. It missed, barely, but the separate car and axle (the latter trailing flames) weren't exactly in good shape.

What I remember most is what the driver said: "Can't I just leave the car here at the track? I haven't even told my wife I bought it yet."

jakepressley · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:54 pm

sounding more and more like W2W will have to wait a few more years than I originally thought.

I need to do a better job documenting my track time/schools... starting now. I was handed drivers log book last year at vir, I think by Mr. Mackey, I don't know why Its collecting dust in my tool box.

I also need to be realistic about this level of investment, and really be honest about "if I'm ready." as a driver. I'd probably need to at least double my current track time complimented with HPDE's and Clinics. This would put me in the 7-9 year range going at my current pace. Which would put my youngest in roughly 5 grade.. plenty old enough to swap out tires, prep the car, hold a seat in the drivers meeting and anything else I can get him to do... This is why we have kids right.

Would the next "logical" step be the route of instructing. more track time at a cheaper rate.... although I've filled a helmet before.. motion sickness.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:52 pm

jakepressley wrote:

.
Would the next "logical" step be the route of instructing. more track time at a cheaper rate.... although I've filled a helmet before.. motion sickness.

If you get motion sick, you Don't want to be an instructor. Besides you can't teach very much while puking into a helmet.

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

instructing and racing are not really related. many instructors don't (and never will) race, and quite a few racers don't (or no longer) instruct.

racing safely and successfully requires that you be able to drive at 9/10s and above while having enough brainpower left to focus on passing opportunities, watch your mirrors, defend your position, think about strategy, etc. that generally comes from seat time, no substitute. but instructing often yields less track time than students get, and it's often with a passenger so you have to dial it back a bit and can't drive at 9/10s. plus you're still paying for travel, lodging, fuel, tires/brakes, food, etc so it's definitely not "free" track time.

Kevin Butler · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:10 am

I'll be attending NASA M-A Comp School this Friday. Though I'll be running SE (mostly) this M-A date worked best for my schedule. I should be participating in my first 2 races Sat & Sun if all goes well.

I have ran with NASA only once - several years ago @ Road Atlanta. I keep my driving experience on a spreadsheet. Columns are date, track, organization, run group, time(if I TT'd or had major improvement per TraqMate), car. I sent this in. The only question asked of me was how much of my experience was open passing with a point by. Apparently my experience was enough.

I don't want to talk about the money, but take whatever you initially think and add at least 50%. I'm just hoping that by starting out with a "fresh" car I've "payed my dues" up front and won't be nickel & dimed to death on operating costs.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:29 am

The biggest shock you will have it the shear size of the event this weekend.

As for the nickel and dime, expect to spend a lot more than that :-)

I am amazed how much a beating a race car takes over an hpde car or tt car.

Here are my tips on getting though the comp school:
1) Hydrate, hydrate and hydrate more. When you come off the track have a gallon of water waiting. Mix up a combo of water and Gatorade. Lack of hydration will show in your last session Friday around 5PM. That is when you will make mistakes.

2) Bring spares. Hell, have a backup car available if need be. Especially if this is the car's first time on track.

3) Sleep...make sure you are well rested.

4) Study the CCR

5) Get to know your partner Thursday evening. You will be spending all day Friday working with them.

6) Ask questions in the classroom, but don't be a smartass. The NASA officials take this very seriously and you want the racers on the panel to walk out with a positive impression.

7) There is no trophy at the end. So make calculated passes and error on the conservative side.

Pay attention to the flags!!! They will give you an idea when the red flag is going to be displayed. Help yourself, calculate where you will most likely be when the flag is coming out. Every class has at least one person fail because of the red flag. I would not surprised if they really hammer you on the flags after Summit last month.

9) You will not have any time between getting off the track and into the classroom and from getting out of class into the car. You must be in class on time and on grid. Make sure all of your equipment is arranged and things like the cool shirt hook up are easy and quick.

10) Have fun...you will get a ton of track time and do things you did not think were possible.

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

kevin - i'll be there on fri (arriving mid-morning) to help a friend out with utcc. if i'm free i'll help you out too. should be an awesome se30 field, looks like 20+ cars including six from the se region.

jim - what happened at SP last month?

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:23 pm

Jason Tower wrote:

kevin - i'll be there on fri (arriving mid-morning) to help a friend out with utcc. if i'm free i'll help you out too. should be an awesome se30 field, looks like 20+ cars including six from the se region.

jim - what happened at SP last month?

Oh, there was a lot hanky panky going at a local yellow and more so during a full course caution. The race director wanted to disqualify all of Thunder :-)

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