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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:25 am 
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Arthur McDonald wrote:
Michael Westerfield wrote:
But Art... you aren't even slightly tempted by the ~25-30whp gain a CAI and tune will provide, not to mention the improved throttle response and fixed rev limiter?

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Those are all nice for street driving (ignoring 25 cents/gallon more for premium fuel), but for autocross:

Another 25-30 rwhp - at 6200 rpm? How much do you get at 3500 or 4500? How does the torque curve look? I'm sure there's a scenario where more power would help, but not nearly as much as better shock damping or stickier tires.

Throttle response - I haven't noticed a problem. Now it's really annoying on the street, when you're coasting long enough for the computer to cut off fuel (about 2 secs), then try to blip the throttle for a downshift. Unless you give it a BIG blip, you don't get anything. Once the throttle is open (and the computer holds it open for a couple of secs after you let off the throttle), it seems to take additional inputs readily. I think it's just a matter of our courses this year being pretty open, but not all that fast: I've only made one shift per run this year. From 1st to 2nd.

Fixed rev limiter - when Sam Strano told me about the "slap you down 500 rpm for being a bad boy" limiter on the GTs, I about cried. I ended up ordering a slightly taller tire than he runs, just to add 2 mph as the top of 2nd gear. Anyway, I haven't hit the dreaded rev limiter yet, through I have run into the traction control a few times due to wheel spin exiting turns. I keep forgetting to turn traction control off.

Other early season worries:

TPMS - My A/X wheels don't have sensors. The light hasn't come on yet.

Dire warnings in the owner's manual and shop manual about frying the car's lighting system if trailer light wiring was spliced in - I had Raleigh hitch install the hitch and wiring, just so that it wouldn't be my fault. The car's lights are doing fine, but I lost the running lights circuit to the trailer at Danville. (Since I have 2 trailers and the 5.0 is wired too, I was able to narrow it down to "something in the new Mustang") Raleigh Hitch replaced the pigtail for free last week.

My wish is that the current FS crowd stays in FS, that we prep our cars to the limit of the stock class rules, and let the battle rage.


The tuner can optimize for your settings. You can have a 87 octane tune that still gains ~10-15hp as well as 93 octane tunes. You can load them on the fly. From what I've read the throttle response is greatly improved as well. This is not all peak hp either. From what I remember you get a decent bump in midrange too.

A stock Mustang is a terrible thing. Why would I buy a car with the largest performance aftermarket? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

I'll probably stick around in FS another year, but the mod bug will eventually get me.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:27 am 
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RodneyWright wrote:
Dire warnings? Guess I should have looked at the manual before I installed mine. Where exactly did Raleigh Hitch tie into the wiring? I'd like to back check mine.


If we all went by the damn owners manual we would never add or change anything on a car. :roll: Maybe the Mustang has magical wiring?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:17 am 
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Arthur McDonald wrote:
Dire warnings


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:52 am 
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Arthur McDonald wrote:
.

My wish is that the current FS crowd stays in FS, that we prep our cars to the limit of the stock class rules, and let the battle rage.


So you're going to build a Shelby clone?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:29 pm 
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My stiffness is only an illusion
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RodneyWright wrote:
Arthur McDonald wrote:
Dire warnings in the owner's manual and shop manual about frying the car's lighting system if trailer light wiring was spliced in - I had Raleigh hitch install the hitch and wiring, just so that it wouldn't be my fault. The car's lights are doing fine, but I lost the running lights circuit to the trailer at Danville. (Since I have 2 trailers and the 5.0 is wired too, I was able to narrow it down to "something in the new Mustang") Raleigh Hitch replaced the pigtail for free last week.

My wish is that the current FS crowd stays in FS, that we prep our cars to the limit of the stock class rules, and let the battle rage.


Dire warnings? Guess I should have looked at the manual before I installed mine. Where exactly did Raleigh Hitch tie into the wiring? I'd like to back check mine. I'd also like to take ride in you car to feel the shocks. Is there much difference between the stock shocks and the Koni's you're running? Are they easy to adjust? I'll get up you this weekend for some help and directions. Thanks Art....


So Art.... I just got off the phone w/ the local Ford dealer and they recommended calling raleigh hitch. When I called, the guy told me they do a direct wire connect, which really goes against what I thougtht they would do. Right now I'm thinking I'm going w/ a powered pigtail that uses power from the battery to run the lights and uses the car lights to signal the pigtail via a relay. Let me know if you want to change yours out. The guy said if you run over 4 lights, a direct connect may be a concern. Suggested that you could swap over to LED's, but since I have 2 trailers, I'm going power pigtail.

EDIT: I'm running a direct connect right now as well. I won't be tomorrow....

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'08 Bullitt mustang, CAM 7
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:02 pm 
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Honda >> Ford
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Chuck Branscomb wrote:
Arthur McDonald wrote:
Throttle response - I haven't noticed a problem. Now it's really annoying on the street, when you're coasting long enough for the computer to cut off fuel (about 2 secs), then try to blip the throttle for a downshift. Unless you give it a BIG blip, you don't get anything. Once the throttle is open (and the computer holds it open for a couple of secs after you let off the throttle), it seems to take additional inputs readily.


Art, what's up with this design? Is that the actual way they have programmed it, or is there some issue with your car? I'm just thinking about the fuel-cut-off introduced back in the early 80's with the introduction of Bosch Motronic (and on all Bosch systems since then). It's cuts off fuel flow instantly on a closed throttle, and if you coast down, it won't resume fuel delivery until ~1200rpm or so. However, if you touch the throttle it responds instantly (with no discernible lag...none) to the input. You never know that feature is there.

Did Ford somehow screw things up? If so, I'm guessing very strongly that it's a band-aid measure to the emissions road test cycle similar to how many modern auto-tranny cars have throttle delays programmed in to scape through such testing...the main reason I got my wife to switch back to manual tranny cars for her daily driver a number of years back. :)

Chuck


Chuck, I'm pretty sure it's an emissions consideration. My '95 SHO 5-speed behaved exactly the same (though it was not fly-by-wire) and at the time the SHO forums said was due to emissions problems when the throttle was closed suddenly. My 5.0 has very nice throttle response, despite the stock flywheel. It just won't stop :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:24 pm 
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You're just jealous

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FYI from Corner-Carvers. Search S197 Throttle Lag

Lots of discussion including input from engineers for the car.

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/sh ... ttle+delay

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:28 pm 
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Honda >> Ford
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Wes Eargle wrote:
Arthur McDonald wrote:
.

My wish is that the current FS crowd stays in FS, that we prep our cars to the limit of the stock class rules, and let the battle rage.


So you're going to build a Shelby clone?


No, but thank you for asking.

My horror at learning the Shelby GT would be classed in FS is well documented in earlier posts. The Shelby GT was announced before I ordered my car, but it never occurred to me that it would be an FS car. I assumed that since it was a tuner car, it would go to A or B-Stock, like Fox body Saleens or Lingenfelter prepped Camaros and Firebirds of the past.
:deadhorse:

For my part, I'll prep my existing car, as a Mustang GT, pretty close to the limit of the rules. I've done the big stuff already. Smaller items like revalved shocks/struts (or degassed -- those Konis jacked my car up), and a smaller diameter FSB might be up for consideration in the future. I've a got a few knobs to turn with what I have now, so I'm happy until Rodney or the Westerfields show up with a Bullitt, or 2010 w/Track Pack, and kick me to the curb. (Not worried about the new Camaro SS... one hard launch and they have to go back to the dealer for a new tranny :) )

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:07 pm 
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Arthur McDonald wrote:
(Not worried about the new Camaro SS... one hard launch and they have to go back to the dealer for a new tranny :) )


Does the dealer have to honor that? I would have assumed that since they got all that lawsuit protection in the bankruptcy that they'd also have figured a way out of any warranty claims. :oops:


--Donnie

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:30 am 
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You're just jealous

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Donnie Barnes wrote:
Arthur McDonald wrote:
(Not worried about the new Camaro SS... one hard launch and they have to go back to the dealer for a new tranny :) )


Does the dealer have to honor that? I would have assumed that since they got all that lawsuit protection in the bankruptcy that they'd also have figured a way out of any warranty claims. :oops:


--Donnie


As a new stockholder in the new GM, I oppose ANY warranty coverage of "racing" related repairs, especially if the competition includes Fords . . . :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:02 am 
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Honda >> Ford
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DickRasmussen wrote:
Donnie Barnes wrote:
Arthur McDonald wrote:
(Not worried about the new Camaro SS... one hard launch and they have to go back to the dealer for a new tranny :) )


Does the dealer have to honor that? I would have assumed that since they got all that lawsuit protection in the bankruptcy that they'd also have figured a way out of any warranty claims. :oops:


--Donnie


As a new stockholder in the new GM, I oppose ANY warranty coverage of "racing" related repairs, especially if the competition includes Fords . . . :D


Dick, We're all stockholders in GM now :?

Of course, it's better than being a stockholder in Motors Liquidation Company -- http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssCons ... 3520090715

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:21 pm 
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You're just jealous

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Arthur McDonald wrote:
Dick, We're all stockholders in GM now :?


My point exactly. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:48 am 
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I just realized that I can't run STX with you guys because of engine size. This might make buying r-comps for the GTO more attractive.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:23 am 
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My stiffness is only an illusion
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JamesMilko wrote:
I just realized that I can't run STX with you guys because of engine size. This might make buying r-comps for the GTO more attractive.


Hey James, buy the r-comps and come run in FS! We are all running different tires and we have all at one point come in first, so there is no outstanding tire in our class. I guess your limitation will be width. I know I'm running a 275x17 and Michael and Art are running 265-275x18. Let us know when you want to join in the fun. I think right now we are all planning on running stock class the remainder of this year and in 2010.

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'08 Bullitt mustang, CAM 7
Autox VP '09-'10, President '11-'12, interim President 2nd half of ‘14
proud recipient of the Bowie Grey service award '12
Now just a guy driving a mustang....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:27 pm 
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RodneyWright wrote:
JamesMilko wrote:
I just realized that I can't run STX with you guys because of engine size. This might make buying r-comps for the GTO more attractive.


Hey James, buy the r-comps and come run in FS! We are all running different tires and we have all at one point come in first, so there is no outstanding tire in our class. I guess your limitation will be width. I know I'm running a 275x17 and Michael and Art are running 265-275x18. Let us know when you want to join in the fun. I think right now we are all planning on running stock class the remainder of this year and in 2010.


We have 245/40/18

Come on out and play though. If you look in the right places 17 & 18" used r-comps aren't too expensive.


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