NB Miata in STT

Ryan Storzbach · **Posted:** Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:53 pm

I think we should let Alex run STT in her 99 Miata - the class is pretty small as is and I'm all for more competition. There really isnt much of a difference between the NA and NB anyways...

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

I guess it's about time, we haven't had one of these in a while ...

:banghead:

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:37 pm

I'll take this Wes...

She can run in STT provided that her car doesn't have the Torsen limited slip diff. Unfortunately, rules are rules and are there for a reason.

I'm all for letting the class grow but, if SS wasn't a big class and Graham Jagger showed up in his ASP car, should we let him run SS? I don't think so.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:49 pm

Upon further review the ruling in the rule book stands...

As stated in the exclusion list posted in the SCCA Solo Rulebook for 2008

Mazda Miata 1999+

Sorry, if it is on the exclusion list then no dice...Sorry Alex.

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:53 am

I'd like to see her be able to run in a class her car was a better fit for, but it's a steep slippery slope when you start changing rules to accomidate specific people/cars. IMHO she should convert back to a Sport or PEP pkg configuration and run it in CS or T (CS). It would be expensive and require a lot of technical skill to make it competitive in CSP. Such is the lot of the NB Miata, it has become the underdog in any class. Things may change when the next reorganization of the stock classes takes place.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:40 am

On the flip side...

The SCCA allows regions to run their events how they please with regards to classing. Inventing classes, etc.

We are not the SCCA.

We are doing this for the sole purpose of having fun.

An NB Miata with an open diff will not be any better in STT than the NA models.

We run a Tire class, we run an OF class, we run a Novice class. So, since we're already tweaking the rules as we see fit, why not tweak them when there is a reasonable request.

Heck, we have illegal cars in a large number of our classes, the difference is, those drivers either don't know, don't say or no one cares enough to protest.

Scott

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:52 am

No one wants to see her run her car where she's terribly out classed. But that scenario holds true for a large number of novices who purchase a car they like, then start to autocross and find themselves hoplessly outclassed. If you bend the rules for one, you then must bend them for all,
and pretty quick you'll lose controll of the classes. The best advise I can offer is to continue to run in CSP and hone your driving skills until such a time as you can return the car back to stock. You may find its easier to change cars after you've bettered your driving skills and gained some experience with what class you'd like to run in.

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:11 am

scottjohnson wrote:

On the flip side...
We run a Tire class, we run an OF class, we run a Novice class. So, since we're already tweaking the rules as we see fit, why not tweak them when there is a reasonable request.
Scott

Yes, we have created some fun classes. But, we didn’t change the pax. All cars in Novice, OF, and Tire run with their proper paxed class.

Every year we have someone who just has some seemingly small thing that takes them out of the class they desire-and this discussion comes up in some form. It’s the nature of getting a car that you love and finding out about autoX, only to be told that your car “won’t go in that class.” My suggestion would be to remain in the proper class and work on driving skills-or put the car back to stock-which will cost a bit. But, remember, the car you love to drive will drive differently without the mods you enjoy. You might just end up in the class you want with the car you don’t.

Mentally you can still compete (and hang) with anyone you choose. They don’t have to be in your class.

Hee hee, look at that. My hubby is in his office voicing his opinion as I speak. :lol:

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

yup, I run STS b/c I much prefer my car with the rear sway bar, intake, and different wheels. The fact that I am totally uncompetitive doesn't bother me so much. If you want, you can always look after the event and see where you WOULD have finished. I know I compare my times to the HS cars (since I'm closer to them than a true STS car) and look at my overall pax finish after the events, even though I'm usually in the last 3 finishers in STS every time out. Serves the same purpose. Just b/c you don't run in the NA miatas class doesn't mean you can't compare times to them.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:47 am

Gwen Baake wrote:

But, we didn’t change the pax. All cars in Novice, OF, and Tire run with their proper paxed class.

PAX, another fabricated number that you won't find in the rulebook. We can also assign our own values for that.

The point is, it's our club, we set the rules. We could also add classes like "STX2."

We could let the Elise, the NB Miata, the MR2's, Porsche's, S2000's, Z3's, Z4's, Z8's etc all play in that class on street tires. Pretty much a catch-all for 2 seaters on street tires that aren't allowed in STT. All it takes for that to happen is about 5 to 7 people who will run it, a quick vote at a club meeting, etc.

Let's think out of the box. It's easy to point the finger and claim "I-Stock" wannabe, or we can look for trends in our membership and try to address them. There is actually a large national demand for an STX-2 type of class and many regions run one.

Scott

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:51 am

scottjohnson wrote:

Gwen Baake wrote:

But, we didn’t change the pax. All cars in Novice, OF, and Tire run with their proper paxed class.

PAX, another fabricated number that you won't find in the rulebook. We can also assign our own values for that.

The point is, it's our club, we set the rules. We could also add classes like "STX2."

We could let the Elise, the NB Miata, the MR2's, Porsche's, S2000's, Z3's, Z4's, Z8's etc all play in that class on street tires. Pretty much a catch-all for 2 seaters on street tires that aren't allowed in STT. All it takes for that to happen is about 5 to 7 people who will run it, a quick vote at a club meeting, etc.

Let's think out of the box. It's easy to point the finger and claim "I-Stock" wannabe, or we can look for trends in our membership and try to address them. There is actually a large national demand for an STX-2 type of class and many regions run one.

Scott

I'm with Scott on this one as well but we would need to see interest IMHO.

Specifically, the non LSD 99+ Miata's not being allowed in STT is SCCA BS IMHO. I just don't see how that would kill the class. A little bit more power and a little bit more weight? Same tires and same suspension as the NA miata's?

Then again, I think the 2nd Gen MR2 ought to be allowed in STT as well :twisted:

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:12 am

scottjohnson wrote:

Gwen Baake wrote:

But, we didn’t change the pax. All cars in Novice, OF, and Tire run with their proper paxed class.

PAX, another fabricated number that you won't find in the rulebook. We can also assign our own values for that.

The point is, it's our club, we set the rules. We could also add classes like "STX2."

We could let the Elise, the NB Miata, the MR2's, Porsche's, S2000's, Z3's, Z4's, Z8's etc all play in that class on street tires. Pretty much a catch-all for 2 seaters on street tires that aren't allowed in STT. All it takes for that to happen is about 5 to 7 people who will run it, a quick vote at a club meeting, etc.

Let's think out of the box. It's easy to point the finger and claim "I-Stock" wannabe, or we can look for trends in our membership and try to address them. There is actually a large national demand for an STX-2 type of class and many regions run one.

Scott

Your talking out of both sides of your mouth Scott. First you put down pax as a fabricated number that anyone can make up, then you propose a class (stx-2) that will have to use a fabricated Pax. I see nothing wrong with an STX-2 class, but what pax will you use for the NB Miata? Or are you proposing that all cars in that class run straight up head to head?

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:16 am

I completely agree with the NB with open diff being allowed in STS2. It never made much sense to allow the 1.8L NA but not the same thing with a heavier body in.

I also agree that there should be a STX2. I would love to see some of those cars running on street tires with all that power. I know that there are some regions who have had the class at one point (I don't remember if anyone has it this year though.)

Oh, and PAX sucks. <--Thrown in just because it was mentioned!! :wink:

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:17 am

Ryan Holton wrote:

Specifically, the non LSD 99+ Miata's not being allowed in STT is SCCA BS IMHO. I just don't see how that would kill the class. A little bit more power and a little bit more weight? Same tires and same suspension as the NA miata's?

I think it would be faster than all the other Miatas currently in the class. More power, better gearing (same as the 1.6L's), better front-end geometry and essentially the same weight in ST* trim as the 1.8L NA's.

Faster than an STT CRX? That probably depends on the course but it would certainly close the gap if not shoot past them as well.

The exclusion of the NB Miatas was done by the people (mostly NA Miata people) that originally pushed for the class. How is that SCCA BS?

Ryan Holton wrote:

Then again, I think the 2nd Gen MR2 ought to be allowed in STT as well.

I'd be more inclined to agree with that since I don't think the MR2 is going to gain nearly as much as the Miata/CRX in ST* trim. Given that they would probably have to run the same tires as the Miata/CRX crowd and they ain't exactly light, it would probably balance out fairly well.

Jim

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:19 am

Bernie Baake wrote:

Your talking out of both sides of your mouth Scott. First you put down pax as a fabricated number that anyone can make up, then you propose a class (stx-2) that will have to use a fabricated Pax. I see nothing wrong with an STX-2 class, but what pax will you use for the NB Miata? Or are you proposing that all cars in that class run straight up head to head?

STX2 hasn't been proposed as a PAX class. It would receive its own PAX just like all the other ST* classes.

THSCC Forums

NB Miata in STT

Who is online