THSCC Forums

By now you've probably seen the proposal I put on the THSCC and nc-ax list about NCAC. The message is below if you haven't read it.

My question is- would you support a one weekend NCAC event as described below. I want to hear from everybody, but especially from national level drivers and those that are working hard on improving their skills.

For the newbies- NCAC is the North Carolina Autocross Championship Series. It has traditionally been a series of events, hosted by each of the four clubs during the season. The most recent format is that you had to attend three of the four events to qualify for season points to get the title of "State Champion" in your class. One event is hosted by each club.

I'd like to see the series concept continue, but only if we can increase the level of participation and competition.

In case you've missed it, the reason for the proposal is that our current NCAC Chairman, Dean Furr, that has worked so hard on this for the last couple years, is no longer able to continue. And I'd hate to see the series just die because nobody stepped forward. There are other options!

If you didn't see it on the list, read the message below and vote!

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The struggles of NCAC in recent years have largely been a result of the changing climate in competing forces. All of the clubs have grown enough in size that a typical event for some clubs is now bigger than an NCAC used to be. The rise of track events, an increase in the number of people running in local national level events, etc. has all had an impact. While it might be possible for the NCAC to survive in its present form of four events per year, (cut down from eight only a short time ago), I'm not sure that it's the best solution.

I do believe that the concept of NCAC should be kept alive. However, I think we've reached a point that for NCAC to survive in the future, certain things have to change-

- it needs to survive without requiring a separate central core group of people to run and chair it.
- it needs to survive without requiring a lot of travel from participants and taking away from other events
- participants need to be able to participate by making a smaller commitment of time and money
- There must be some kind of incentive to run in it other than the fact that we call it an NCAC event

With the above in mind, I submit the following proposal:

There shall be ONE event each year designated as the NCAC Event. This one single event would be hosted by one of the four NCAC clubs. Each year, the host club rotates. So, perhaps CCR host the first one, Triad the 2nd one, and so forth. We can roll the dice, do it in alphabetical order, or ask for volunteers for the first year and go from there as to who host the first one. That isn't all that important. The event could be a two day event, and we can explore a variety of new options for where and when etc. The event could be combined with an already scheduled event by the host club, or it could be held as an event all its own. It could even be held at a new venue if appropriate and one is available. The point is that we have one big weekend that is NCAC. It could be just a one day event, but I think a a two-day event is appropriate.

If we do this, I would propose the following to make it even more interesting. The competition and scoring should be designed to encourage the promotion and participation from each club, not just the running of individuals. This event would be about bragging rights for the "winning" autox club, in addition to the usual pride of the individual competitors. So, when the event is over, we crown a particular club the "Championship Club" or whatever for that year. This is open for discussion but I would want participation to count for something towards club level awards.

I can even picture a huge trophy or a plaque, with room for the winning club of that year on it, that rotates from club to club. Make it good for 25 years and see how we've done in 2029!

I would suggest that we have awards for:

1. The club with the most participants.
2. The club with the most first place trophies
3. The club which had entrants in the most classes
4. The club with the most points (in which case we award so many points for 1st, 2nd and 3rd only)

It would be the responsibility of the host club to provide trophies and any NCAC particulars that are needed. The host club would be permitted to collect the usual extra few dollars per car to help offset the extra trophy expenses etc. The host club would also have the option of pursuing sponsorships for the event.

I think if done properly, this could be a huge event, lots of fun, and require no ongoing, separate, central committee. Outside sponsorships, if obtained, would be solely up to the host club. I would propose that the points of contact for any NCAC related issues be the four club Presidents, and the President of the host club that year is by default the NCAC Chairman for the few leadership duties that remain. My thoughts are to make an organization that runs on autopilot as much as possible, using personnel already in a position of leadership. Yet, the goal would be to add very little extra work to their normal duties.

This is not intended to be a complete rules set of how such an event would run, but I wanted to give you the idea to chew on.

Miles Beam
THSCC

FWIW, I agree with Miles suggestion. In fact, I'd been thinking about making a similiar suggestion for a while. Having just one (1) State Championship event each year makes the logistics and effort much easier for everyone. Plus, there is likely to be a much bigger turnout for one (1) event. And, if you win, then you can say I beat all the best drivers in class on this day and I'm the state champ, or whatever. Even if you don't win it's always helpful to benchmark yourself against fast people. Virginia did this for many years and may still do it. They used a two-day format. One or two day really doesn't matter to me. So, the benefits of being easier, cheaper, and having one big event with excellent competition sounds good to me. Also, the idea to rotate clubs hosting the event each year sounds good.

Eric

I agree that a single state championship event would be pretty cool. But I also think that it would take away from some of the appeal of the NCAC.

The current format of the NCAC is beautiful in its simplicity. The hardest part for each of the clubs is accommodating the extra 50-70 competitors.

A single weekend state championship is a whole different animal. Do the sites exist to support an event that could easily top 300 competitors? Would any club be willing to run such an event? What we would be looking at is similar to the size and scope of a national tour event.

What problem are we trying to solve? It appears the problem is that no one wants to step forward to run the existing NCAC program. If we can not get that kind of help, how would we get the support to run such a large event? You will still need the person or people to run the NCAC any ways.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Just some numbers on where we are today-

In 2003, there were about 40 people that ran at least three NCAC events. We had 37 classes. Here's some numbers for you for 2003. (I may be off one here and there, but you get the idea) The term "competitors" below is the number that qualify for an NCAC title.

Number of Classes with 4 competitors: 1
Number of Classes with 3 competitors: 4
Number of Classes with 2 competitors: 6
Number of Classes with 1 competitors: 12
Number of Classes with 0 competitors: 11

So, in 23 of 37 (62%) classes, you were either the only competitor that ran enough events to qualify for a NCAC title, or you were in a class where nobody even bothered to run the three event minimum. Now granted, in a particular event, the levels of competiton in each class were deeper because of the locals and those that ran only 1 or 2, but still... if you were looking to compete against the best for a state title, it didn't happen in most of the classes.

It doesn't look to me like the current NCAC format is a product that many people are willing to buy. I don't see much point in keeping a format alive that averages 1 car per class.

That's 80% of the reason I suggested the change. I think the proposed format would improve those numbers.

Miles

Yes, it would be an easy fix to the NCAC, make it a one weekend winner take all event. Like I said, that would be cool. But who is willing to coordinate a 400 driver event?

I read mention to so many other options available to us as a reason of the decrease in participation. I fail to see all these options. Each club still runs only 8 events. Yes, we have the TT, but is it reducing the number of participants at autocrosses? As a matter of fact, we probably have seen a 3 fold increase in participation in autocross. The percentage of drivers that participate at the national level is probably the same as it was 3 years ago.

Why is it that we have such a decrease in NCAC participation?

I think last year was the first year we as a club did not threaten to pull out of the NCAC. I know in the 00 & 01 & 02 season there was a vocal minority that bad mouthed the NCAC and wanted us to pull out from it.

I remember when I started in 99, winning the NCAC was a big deal. That was a goal I shot for in my first full season in 2000. I was encourage by my mentors to run the NCAC to see how I stacked up against the competition. We no longer encourage people to run the NCAC.

Would a single state championship event turn out the participants? Hell , yea. I would be right there too. Does it do anything to address Haywood's comments? No.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

I should probably back out of this thread about now... but here goes anyway.

First, I don't think there will be 400 car events, just because we go to one weekend, certainly not for awhile. I would be amazed if we actually got to 250 the first time. I honestly think any club in the state could run a 300 car event. How? By simply having half the classes run on Saturday and the other half run on Sunday. It isn't ideal, but it could be made to work. Any club could do that right now. It would push some, and the organization would be extra work for that one event for that club, but it could certainly be done. There are other ways to do it, but that is one obvious one.

One of the keys to building competition in that one weekend event though is that it better be a well run event. If it's not, the idea will fail. So it is risky in a way. I suspect the organizational aspects of it would morph over time though to meet the challenges.

You're right Jim that there are many reasons people don't run NCAC. I suspect that one of them is because the local clubs don't really push it and promote it like they once did, as you suggest.

What we have now though is a series and an idea that has lost momentum. Something needs to change to get it back. Would you travel to four national level events if you were the only car in your class? or if there were only one competitor, and he was the local guy that just happened to live near the site? Right now, a lot of the better drivers don't run NCAC because there is nobody to run against.. so it's a self perpetuating problem. We need to break the cycle by changing something.

Jim, I know you like the four event format. If we keep it for 2004, will you run it for at least three events?

I'd just like to see us give it a shot and see what happens.

Whatever happens though is up to the leadership of each club. We'll just have to wait and see what they decide.

Miles

Hold the boat, I never said I like the four event format.

I finished 2nd in 2000 and first in 2001 and 2003, running the NCAC.

I choose not to run the NCAC this past year simply because of the lack of competition in the Carolinas. Either I run the NCAC or travel to national events. I choose to focus on national events and get my butt handed to me there.

If the NCAC competition was good, I would add the events to my schedule. Or if the prize was a cool jacket as opposed to another piece of wood. Yea, I wish I had one of the BFG jackets.

_________________
Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

It seems to me the difference there is running the current NCAC requires commitment to 4 events and the proposal would be commitment for someone to run 1 event so its more likely people would be willing to volunteer to "run" the NCAC.. and run means organize here not participate at the event..

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'88 bmw 535is
'98 honda civic ex