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 Post subject: Advice and Suggestions for Novice School
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:18 pm 
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As the title states, we're open to suggestions. I just can't promise we'll take them! :D

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:45 am 
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i always liked the idea of doing two courses with different elements...split the atendees into two different groups..let'm run both courses before lunch...then after lunch make one side a timed course and repeat the morning. Alternatively, you could link the two courses and time it and let the entire group run it after lunch until we are done.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:51 pm 
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Thanks Chris, I agree with your comments.

Does anyone have a blank map/spreadsheet for laurinburg? How about one with areas to stay away from (ie, bad concrete), or better yet, good areas?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:02 pm 
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PhilFausz wrote:
Does anyone have a blank map/spreadsheet for laurinburg? How about one with areas to stay away from (ie, bad concrete), or better yet, good areas?


Isn't that a null set? Sorry, couldn't resist.

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 Post subject: Re: Advice and Suggestions for Novice School
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:21 pm 
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PhilFausz wrote:
As the title states, we're open to suggestions. I just can't promise we'll take them! :D


I've chaired a lot of novice schools over the years and you'll find that there are as many different suggestions for how to do this as there are people in the club. Nonetheless, what I personally found worked best, for both the instructors and the novice students, I will describe briefly here.

If the site permits it, I would set up three stations. Each station is a "mini course" if you want to call it that. The stations would be placed on the site such that they could be easily linked together into a full course in the afternoon, if time and circumstances permit.

The three examples that follow are basically a long U shape, which is what you have to work with on most airport sites.

Station 1) evenly spaced salom going out on the right side and head toward a single pivot cone and come back on the left side with an increasing or decreasing spaced slalom. This provides an opportunity to practice -

a) starts and hard accelerations
b) setting speed before the slalom entry
c) evenly spaced slalom
d) hard braking before a pivot and how to do a pivot cone
e) uneven slaloms
- decreasing spacing requires the student to slow the car toward the end, to learn to read the spacing of a decreasing slalom, and to pay attention to cone spacing
- increasing slaloms give you the opportunity to help the student practice applying throttle through elements that open up

Station 2
My favorite is something like this:

1) hard launch into a lane change.
2) turn around using a decreasing or increasing radius curve
3) return through a Chicago box or go back through the lane change.

You can practice an increasing radius turn for the first half of the time, then a decreasing radius turn for the last half by running this in the opposite direction.


Station 3
There are a variety of optons here.
One option is to start and go through a series of offset gates. Depending on the site, you can make these fairly far apart. I would keep the distance and the amount of offset the same for about for or five gates and then do a turn around and come back through.

This is exercise is very important as you lets you teach the importance of setting up early. You want the students to get into a rhythm, thus the reason for keeping the distance and offset amounts the same.

For one of the exercises, you should set up a practice threshold braking zone, though you will get some of this practice in braking before rounding the pivot cone. The idea here is simple. You want the students to learn how long it takes to stop the car in a straight line from a reasonable speed (say about 40 to 45 mph). You can either set a cone from them to apply the brakes, or set a gate up which you call the "stop gate". The idea of the latter is that you tell them stop with the car as close to the stop gate as possible without going through it. They choose when to apply the brakes should practice threshold braking until the car stops.

In some ways, practicing this type of braking before the pivot cone is even better because in autocrossing, you rarely come to a full stop, and getting smoothly off the brakes before a turn is as important as applying them smoothly in the beginning.

Many of the instructors in this club could write a book about how to set up a school and each would have different ideas. The above is just one way to do it. What you actually do depends on the site, how many students, etc. The above idea works well when you take about an hour at each segment before lunch, or maybe two stations before lunch and one right afterwards. Ideally, you would link the elements together during a break and let the students see the entire course. If you do this right, and an event follows the next day, you might get away with running the course the opposite direction for the event the next day and using many of the elements as placed.

The above examples provide all of the basic elements of autocrossing, including the THSCC commonly seen elements;

- slaloms (even and increasing/decreasing)
- increasing / decreasing radius turns
- offsets
- lane changes
- threshold braking practice
- pivot cones
- Chicago Box

Sites like Laurinburg actually offer opportunities to do some interesting things not available so easily at other sites, or at least done in a unique way. I haven't looked yet to see where the school is, but you can have a lot of fun with elements that are set up on the "P" and at the crossover.

This type of layout is one that allows the student to learn the basic elements of autocrossing and also begin to practice car control at the limits of adhesion. You want the students to be able to go fast enough to experience pushing and oversteering and to experience the limits of their car, but not so fast as to be really frightening. Elements that allow third gear should not be included in a novice school.

This layout also features very simple, easy to follow "mini courses". If the course is not visually clear or is too complex, the student spends too much mental energy on trying to figure out where to drive instead of HOW to drive the car.

Introducing them to a full course after seeing the basic elements is a good way to help the students quickly realize that an autocross is not a series of gates or a sea of cones, but a series of fundamental elements. None of the experienced autocrossers I know ever memorize every single gate, but tend to think of the course in elements - like "The launch, lane change, three offset gates, Chicago box, constant radius right turn, etc.

One last footnote. Providng lunch and a lunch time speaker is also a nice touch. It is fun for the students, and allows time to share things that just don't get communicated in the car. Eric Peterson was always one of my favorite lunch time speakers!


Good luck!

Miles
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:03 pm 
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PhilFausz wrote:
<snip>How about one with areas to stay away from (ie, bad concrete), or better yet, good areas?


my suggestion would be to have a rough idea of what you want to do (in terms of elements and flow), and roughly where on the L'burg surface you want to do that (i.e. short course on the P section), but leave yourself the flexibility to figure out how you're going to get from this bit of "ok" concrete to that bit of "ok" concrete. Too much detail early in the planning process will undoubtedly lead to massive headaches on setup day when you realize what areas you have to work around.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:28 pm 
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PhilFausz wrote:
Does anyone have a blank map/spreadsheet for laurinburg? How about one with areas to stay away from (ie, bad concrete), or better yet, good areas?


Check your email. :D

Call me to discuss.....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:17 am 
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Keep it simple (don't even think about using a looooooooooooooong course), crack the whip early and often, make sure the instructors get rewarded with some fun runs when the students aren't running.

If you want more detail, I'll look up my notes from the one I chaired.


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 Post subject: Simple = Better
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:02 am 
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Kevin Allen wrote:
Keep it simple (don't even think about using a looooooooooooooong course), crack the whip early and often, make sure the instructors get rewarded with some fun runs when the students aren't running.


I totally agree with Kevin. I took my first autocross school about 20 years ago.... gosh was that before the age of cars?

Anyway, I took the THSCC spring novice school for several years in a row, and the club seemed to have a very simple, effective way of doing the schools back then. There were four stations and you rotated through the stations with about 45 minutes to an hour at each one. Each station focused on one or at most two things. It was something like this:

Station 1) slalom - a single slalom and you ran through it, turned around and came back, or sometimes just went through it on the way out, and returned at pit speed on the other side of the runway.

Station 2) acceleration and braking - launch hard and smooth, get up to speed, and practice threshold braking stops

Station 3) lane change - go through it, turn around and come back

Station 4) sweeper (espcially delightful at Rocky Mount)

Sometimes there was a skidpad.

Those schools were excellent for teaching car control and fundamentals of how to attack each element. They made it easy for the instructors to teach because you could focus on one thing at at time.

The only drawback that I ever saw was that sometimes the students and instructors would get bored with the simplicity of the elements in a few short attempts. Even though a good 45 min of practice on each one would have been valuable, the students were often ready to move on more quickly than that. In my opinioin, this is infinitely preferable to a school where the students have to spend too much mental energy trying to figure out where to go.

I loved those schools though. If there was a long term disadvantage it might be that it teaches the students to treat each element as a separate, standalone item, ignoring the transitions. The transitions between the elements are really just as important, which is one reason I think the approach of two elements in each section might help some. But, there is only so much a first timer in grasp in one day. This is why we experimented with "intermediate" level schools for several years.

Phil, I told you to expect a wide variety of asnwers!

Oh by the way, when it comes to laying out courses at Laurinburg, here's how I finally figured out how to minimize the frustration with the broken pavement.

Go there with a sketch of what you want to do, but don't be married to it.
Walk through the course area and identify the worst broken up sections on the course that you must drive through. For example, the intersection of the crossover with the taxiway is always tough to get through without big bumps somewhere.

Lay out the elements you need in order to allow the cars to safely navigate the broken areas. Once you've laid those out, realize that they can't be changed without compromising safety.

Look for other large holes or broken sections of concrete. These will often dictate where the cars must be on a certain section of runway. Put gates in those sections accoringly to keep the cars on the good stuff.

If you haven't already, locate your start and finish gates. Make sure the finish gate allows for a safe finish and that cars are not pointed to the crowd or pits. You want to treat the finish such that disaster is not inevitable if you have a brake failure or driver heart attack in those last seconds of the course, especially if you have a high speed finish.

After all this, you get to go back and fill in your elements. If you use the taxiway at Laurinburg, you have almost no room for creativity. On the main runway and the "P", you have a little more flexibility, but not as much as you'll want. You can have a lot of fun with the design of the sweeper at the crossover and some of the main runway elements.

And here's a hint from somebody that has designed a fair number of courses on broken concrete. Rather than worrying too much about a map of the elements and where they go, you need to have in your mind the distances the cones need to be in order to produce the effect you want. For me, a 60 ft evenly spaced slalom is pretty quick and fun. A 45 ft slalom is royal pain in the neck, especially in a big car, and the minimum per SCCA rules. A 70 ft slalom or better for some cars is third gear and flying. Keep the gates wide and let the student pick the line. Don't make the cones on every gate determine the line. There is nothing wrong with gates that are 20 or 25' wide if the pavement in that area is safe to navigate. Make sure you've read the SCCA rule book and know what the minimum distances are for course elements, spectator areas and hard objects. Remember that those are minimums!

Local legends in course design in my mind are Eric Peterson, Mike Dishman, Shawn Whipple and Mike Whitney. If you get stuck and want real advice, talk to those guys! I'm sure there are others, but they are some of the best at designing courses that flow well, are fun, challenging and safe! Others may disagree, but I've always enjoyed their course designs.

Good luck!

Miles


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:07 pm 
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Thanks folks, this is great!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:15 pm 
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Also, you should line both sides of most of the course and use hundreds of pointers as seen in this video, so that the noobs don't get lost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXg5RtTqV2w

:lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:18 pm 
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Just remembered this and wanted to mention it before I forgot. One thing that we did at our school was have instructors go out and WORK the course with the noobs. For some reason, nobody ever thinks about teaching them how to work. :?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:54 pm 
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Last year we did a small course on the P section, started where "typical" L'burg long courses finish in the P, went around the P with a typical Chicago box in the middle (2nd leg), lane change in the 3rd leg, and mini sweeper onto the taxiway (toward the Birch Ind. entrance), to a slalom, then turn-around, back through the slalom, past the sweeper staying on the taxiway, through another slalom to the finish. Was short, but easy to read and simple enough for people to have fun and guage progress. I think having some short course like this, combined with something like Miles says to break down some of the key elements into something more managable to work on, could provide ability for a "before and after" comparison, which may help alleviate some of the bordom from just doing elements themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple = Better
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:06 pm 
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MilesBeam wrote:
Anyway, I took the THSCC spring novice school for several years in a row,


I've been meaning to ask - does that mean it would be cool for me to sign up as well? If it would take away a spot from a first-year Novice I can pass.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple = Better
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:53 am 
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KendtEklund wrote:
MilesBeam wrote:
Anyway, I took the THSCC spring novice school for several years in a row,


I've been meaning to ask - does that mean it would be cool for me to sign up as well? If it would take away a spot from a first-year Novice I can pass.


I'd like to know that as well. Thanks for asking!


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