Top drivers - tips on going faster?

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Just thought I'd try and get this forum rolling...

A few of the things that I think of when people ask me why I'm so much faster than I was last year:

School/ test & tune - learn the right way to drive the course at school, then push the limits of the car at a test & tune. And use that time to adjust your driving to fit the car. Try some different setups, and see how they affect the way the car has to be driven. Learn to adjust your driving to the way the car handles - don't just complain about how much your car sucks, and won't do what you want it to! LOL

Make sure you're properly restrained in the seat and have total control over the steering and pedals - something I notice when I drive other folks' cars is that I usually have to brace myself against stuff to keep from falling out of the seat (a cinch-down type lap belt works wonders for this problem), and a lot of the time the seat is adjusted for "cruising" rather than racing. Something else that has bothered me when driving my car is the sweaty hands issue - just got some gloves, and I'll never autox without them.

"More gas, less brake" - don't be afraid to hold the go pedal on the floor a little longer than you're comfortable with, before jabbing the brake (hard) and easing back into the go pedal. You may eff up sometimes, but if your objective is to go fast without ever hitting any cones, you're going to have a tough time.

Have a plan after you walk the course; be able to drive the course in your head, knowing where you need to be and what you need to be doing as you pass through each gate. And if you work the course before you drive it, watch the fast drivers and see how their run compares to your plan - then adjust your plan accordingly!

Be smooth! The fast drivers in the club can all drift their cars and have lots of fun with jerky steering, braking and throttle application (as I did a few times at the test & tune, hehe). Yes, it's fun - but it's not fast. Make the course flow; if you have to suddenly jerk the wheel to make the next gate, you made a mistake way back yonder. Correct that on your next run.

Seat time - to practice what you've learned about the course and the car.

That's all I can think of for now. Anybody else want to add?

-Kevin

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:31 am

Kevin Allen wrote:

.... you made a mistake way back yonder.

You know this has to be a southern club with text like that. Still, I couldn't have said it better.

Some additional points and/or things I really agree with.

* Know the course before your first run. Walk as much as you can until you can close your eyes and visualize the entire run. Don't just know how the course flows, but try to determine before hand how your car will react. Try to determine exactly where you will break, how the car will positioned, how the car will be loaded up (weight transfers, etc.)

* Have a plan so you can attack on the first run, but be prepared to alter it if your plan does not fit reality. Don't keep trying to make the same crappy plan work run after run.

* Don't convince yourself that "the car will not go any faster". You may be suprised where the limit actually is and that you CAN carry more speed through a segment than you ever dreamed.

* Ride with other people and have them ride with you. Nothing like getting another perspective. Either their comments on your driving or looking out their window as they attack the course.

* Understand what the friction circle is and how it applies to you.

* Set goals. You may think that person X is unbeatable. Try to prove that wrong. Have a positive attitude.

I am sure there are dozens of other tips. I am still working at making all of this translate to a win in STS so I would love to hear from some of the other top drivers.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

If other people are beating you, spend more money on the car. A turbo or supercharger will easily make up that 4 second gap. Quadruple-adjustable remote reservoir Motons will instantly reward a driver with a 2 second advantage.

Change the car between EVERY event. Never ever get comfortable with a setup. Never explore the potential of a current setup.

If you can't win, blame your tires. Sticker Hoosiers are only about $800 for a set. You want to win, right?

Drive faster! Don't brake hard for that turn-around! Understeer is the fastest way around the course. Be sure to yank the steering wheel as hard as possible every time you turn in to help "load" the car.

If you think you're going too fast in the fast parts, be sure to slow down. If you get scared by the speed, you're probably going too fast! If you get the "shakes" after a run, you're doing something wrong. Autocrossing should be boring.

Remember that the cones define the course. Drive cone-to-cone to win. Don't look ahead - be sure to concentrate on each cone as you pass it so you don't hit any.

Is that the kind of information you were looking for Mr. FTD "Clark" Allen?

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Quote:

Change the car between EVERY event. Never ever get comfortable with a setup. Never explore the potential of a current setup.

Actually, this is one thing I've been doing all year - appears to be working!

I wasn't really trying so much to get tips for myself (since I already have mad skillz -

), just attempting to point out some things other folks might not focus enough on.

I second the goals thing that Richard pointed out, too - and when you reach each goal, set a new one! If you run out of goals, just enjoy the rest of the season and get ready for national competition next year.

Chris Brown · **Posted:** Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:23 pm

Richard Casto wrote:

* Ride with other people and have them ride with you. Nothing like getting another perspective. Either their comments on your driving or looking out their window as they attack the course.

i would also say that if you have a chance, drive a "faster" car...during fun runs at one of the night events, i drove Les's MR2 twice and then got back in my car for a run...that last run in my car was over a second faster than my previous 5 or 6 runs that day....i don't think it was just a coincidence...i felt like i was in better control of my car.

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:51 pm

One thing I'll add to the advice already offered is that to be really fast, you have to really push the limits, both of yourself and the car.

I'm not sure how obvious that seems, but I've ridden with plenty of "advanced" students who are driving a good line, are fast and clean, but they're also driving "safe". At the National level, and now even within this club, "fast and clean" won't cut it- you have to be super-aggressive and take chances. Maybe you only get 1 clean run, but it's a winner. Some days you may not get a clean run.

That doesn't mean going out and driving like a crazy person is going to help your times. The key is controlled aggression, regularly exceeding your "comfort zone", and thus extending it.

If you're not already comfortable controlling your car in a slide, I would really recommend working on developing that skill until it's an instinct. You might even decide to take a "season off" just to work on it. It's that important. The fastest drivers look silky smooth, but they're really on the very edge of traction, catching little slides all the time, and it doesn't distract them from executing their plan.

Once you get your car control down, then you can take it to the next level. Plan the places where you want to rotate the car, and use slip angles as a tool to help you get around the course faster.

Actually, you might want to try rallycross as a safe and easy way to learn slide control. But this whole epistle was not intended as a pitch for the upcoming rallycross (Saturday, Sept 27th, BTW, see http://www.thscc.com/rallycross/events/2003/2003-0927info.html for details :wink:

)!

Rob Keehner · **Posted:** Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:34 pm

I agree with Mike, If I drove the Feinberg Miata I'd be a waaaay better driver. But you forgot to add that cheating can also make you look better than you actually are just incase that other stuff didn't work.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:03 am

Here's my addition to this topic......

1) You only get four runs so wasting the first one with the "I'll use the one to find the course" attitude is not good. Like Richard said, *know* the course before your first pass.

2) Don't let a mistake early in a run get you rattled. If you hit a cone at the first gate forget it and try to get the rest of the course right. IMO you can never *make up* for a mistake by pushing harder the rest of the run.

3) Watch, listen, and learn from those who are faster than you. Ask questions, :help:

you'll be surprised how nice most of your fellow competators are. Well except a certain one who shall remain nameless right Kevin? :moon:

4) Catch a ride *every* chance you get. :car:

A lot can be learned watching a fellow driver's technique at speed. Also ask others to ride with you because they can give you invaluable feedback on your run. The knowledge gained outweighs the performance lost due to the extra mass in the passenger seat.

5) Leave the car alone! It's impossible to learn to drive a car that you change every event. Learn the limits of your current setup before you decide to move on to *bigger and better*. Attend a driving school and learn *how* to go fast.

6) If you are convinced that your car can not go *any* faster :bs:

let someone else (an experienced driver who's beating you like a drum) take it on a fun run or two. 9 times out of 10 you'll find that the car is way more capable than you are *currently*. I'm sure the "Prez" will be more than happy to thrash your car any time and show you it *can* go faster. Also you will save you money because you're not dying to buy new *go fast* parts that are not yet needed.

7) HAVE FUN!!!!! This is *the* most important! Hang out, meet people, learn about car stuff, make new friends, and just have a good time. If you come to autocross just to drive 4 minutes then you are missing the best part. I know some take it more seriously, but I like to have fun. Sure winning is great, I ran two whole seasons and never won, but I had fun the whole time.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:16 pm

I tried Vincent's suggestion #6. But instead of using The Prez, I let Vincent drive it. The bastid beat me. Now he doesn't get to drive my car anymore.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:29 pm

Sorry about that Todd. :comfort:

I offered to help you put the flooring your attic to make me...I mean you, feel better, but you declined. Who turns down free labor anyway? :nuts:

I'm still available if you change your mind. :phone:

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:35 pm

I did appreciate the offer with the attic Vincent. I found out that unless you are flooring the whole attic you don't need to nail anything down. Just set it on the rafters. That's what I did. Thanks anyway. Wish I was going to Rockingham this weekend. It would have been a god time to try out the Eclipse. Oh well, I guess I need to let the foot heal before I race again.

Jim Williams · **Posted:** Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:49 pm

Rob Keehner wrote:

....But you forgot to add that cheating can also make you look better than you actually are just incase that other stuff didn't work.

So, Rob, is this your secret to a 3rd place point standing in Street Tire??? Inquiring Street Tire minds wanna know!!

Marvin McBride · **Posted:** Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:22 pm

Of course, the major issue not yet addressed in this thread is the hp/sticker ratio. I'm sure the Prez has a spreadsheet that lists the hp increments for each of club sponser stickers, as well as the race team stickers, etc. Although you have to compensate for the increased weight, you still usually end up positive.

Rob Keehner · **Posted:** Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:29 pm

Quote:

So, Rob, is this your secret to a 3rd place point standing in Street Tire

Haha nope, I'd be in first but I missed two events :wink:

. The hood is open between all of my runs, come take a peek if ya want. I need to win a couple of these things and give myself some breathing room, a 4 way tie is too close for my comfort.

On another note though is how great it is in autox to ride with others. The times I've been up to Virginia to run both the clubs up there give you a 'fun' run and no time if you take a passenger. I still can't for the life of me figure out why they do that, it's like penalizing you for nothing. I know I'm faster after taking some of the club pros with me in my car.

Tom Hoppe · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:16 am **Posts:** 387

One thing we talked about this year at nats was attacking on your first run. This is a little more important at tours because you only get 3 runs instead of 4.

Learn the course to the point where you can drive it in your head. Don't quit walking until you can close your eyes and drive and FEEL the course in your head. Then when you go out on your 1st run, it will be your 6th or 7th or 8th, because you have already nailed it in your head.

As far as "Change the car between EVERY event. Never ever get comfortable with a setup. Never explore the potential of a current setup. "
I am VERY guilty of that this season. I made a change in the car at just about every event, and then when I run a course on a 1st run, I spend too much time trying to figure out where the limit of the car is. When you leave the car the same, you will get to learn what the car feels like during certain manuevers on certain surfaces. Then when you get to the event and look at a turn during a coursewalk, you will be able to know how fast, at what speed, and where you will brake. If you make constant changes to the car, you will not know what the car will do on that 1st run.............

-Tom

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