THSCC Forums

Kevin did a great job in summarizing a lot of the key things that one needs to do to go fast. Also, Carl was very insightful about the controlled agression comments. Learning to drive the car at/above the limits on a regular basis is critical to taking your skills to a higher level. Different people do this different ways.

Many years ago G.H. Sharp was driving my car and I was riding...he told me that his car control skills were not great, but he was able to catch the car while it was still a "small moment"...thus not allowing it to become a big moment, hence he is always keeping the car right on the edge. While he looks smooth as silk from outside the car he and other great drivers do make many small corrections. While they have different styles, Tim Aro is the same way. In order to improve your "feel" and ability to develop this skill you have to drive the car in an aggressively smart manner. This does not mean driving like you are auditioning for a part in the next Dukes of Hazard remake. Severely overdriving the car results in you trying to catch "big moments." You usually will not have a fast time if you have a big moment, even if you save it.

How do you learn to do this? Hopefully an A+ level driver like G.H. will add his two cents worth. These are my thoughts...

1) Brake early and get off the brakes as early as possible!!! If you overslow for a corner, then the car does not have the energy necessary to allow you to "balance" or steer the car with the throttle. This practice, more than any other, is the difference between being good and learning to be FAST on a regular basis. When I'm not driving as fast as I want it is usually because I hang onto the brakes too long. Making yourself get off the brakes early will force you to develop your skills in this area.

2) Looking ahead not only helps you drive smooth and tie features together, it gives you the visual perspective you need to throw in the proper amount of "correction" when these moments occur. If you are looking 10 feet in front of the car you will likely over or undercorrect and blow your run. This allows you to drive with more aggession. When you look ahead, things appear to happen more slowly. My fastest runs often feel like I was "going to the grocery store"....at a brisk pace of course

3) Turn early & turn less. If you turn-in fast and late you are likely to either pick up a push...or end up spinning the car. This is a time killer! By initiating your turn-in as early as you can to drive the desired arc through the corner it makes it much easier to make corrections in that they will likely be small adjustments. That's another reason Tim and GH are so fast. Tim is amazingly agressive, but he does everything so blooyd early that its easy for him to correct and go on...and he almost never spins a car.

4) Agression. In order to drive aggressively enough often means taking that "leap of faith" at various times by driving into or out of sections at speeds above your comfort level. Driving is a big experiment, so be willing to make calculated moves to test the limits of the car. Just keep braking earlier and less until you blow through a corner...then you've found the limits and can slow it up.

My wife, Chris, is often slow to increase her aggession level and/or is apprehensive about carrrying enough speed through certain sections. We've addressed this by relying on a cute little saying about the car that has worked for her..."throw that bitch in there and hang on." It works for her. This forces her to get off the brakes and rely on her car control to get through the corner. She has spun on multiple occasions after doing this, but the more she does it the faster she gets and the better her car control has become. After she spins, she goes right back out there and tries it again and usually gets it. The *payoff* for her was at Day #2 at nationals....she had a moment on the last corner of the course on her last run in a fast section....she was able to make a really nice catch at the finish to save a run and have the 2nd fastest time of the day which moved her into the trophies after a really bad Day #1. If you stick with it, you'll build those skills.

After every season, I analyze what I technically need to work on to get faster. Each year I seem to arrive at the same four items. Unfortunately, I am a slow learner so this year is no different, I'll continue to work on the four items mentioned above to help me get ready for next season.

Here all the while I thought that Chris improved so much the second day because I told her ahead of time that she COULD definately make up enough time to trophy!



Just kidding of course! She really was "throwing that bitch in there" on that run! I think all of us gasped towards the finish though. That save was sooo cool!

In addition...

I agree with Eric on all four points.

Absolutely brake early! If you brake a little too early it will hurt you a lot less than if you brake too late. You can always brake a little deeper the next run if you feel that you should. If you brake too late, like Eric said, chances are the run is blown one way or another.

A big turning point in my own driving was when I was completely comfortable running a course over and over in my head...like playing a video of my intended run.

Evolution Challenge School really underlines the importance of looking ahead...that helped me personally quite a bit.

The "leap of faith" is very true indeed. Never tell yourself that you or the car can't possibly take a corner faster, slalom smoother, etc. You don't know that until you test your limits and the car's limits on that course. I know with myself, if I don't come back from a run having surprised myself...it wasn't a good run. If I come back thinking "Wow that was really easy" I didn't push nearly hard enough. If I'm not shaking, trembling and sweating...it wasn't a good run. Oh and a smile helps too. That means you're having fun.

I really wanted to avoid this topic. But I did want to add a caveat to the brake early concept. Please remember to get back on the gas! After getting your braking initiated early, then you turn, reward yourself by appling the pedal to the far right.

I am going to combine two important tips that Mr. Peterson and Mr. Faulkner gave to me into one:

BRAKE, TURN, GAS ... repeat (this should be a mantra you chant every night before bed). Notice there is no COASTING in the mantra.

Another easy to apply tip:

When walking the course and you tell yourself this is where I am going to brake; stop, take 5 paces back (10-15 feet). That is your braking point.

I expect to see everyone at Laurinburg chanting "brake, turn, gas". Then stop and step back five paces before continueing on with their walk and chanting. It is a Zen thing

Jim is right...brake turn gas ...brake turn gas. That's something that Chuck and I repeat to each other at events many times.
And yet again he's right ... another one we repeat...there's no coasting in autocross...there's no coasting in autocross...

Smart guy that Jim fellow.

Hmm, in rally it's brake turn gas too... all at the same time!

_________________
Carl Fisher

Be Cool to the Pizza Dude:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=4651531

As has been said several times, smoothness pays big dividends. One technique that has been succesful for me is to simply upshift if I'm in a difficult section near the redline for awhile. It puts my head and the car in a different state. The throttle will have less affect on the car's attitude and balance, and it forces me to think more about conservation of momentum and to look further ahead to make the most of the speed I'm carrying. I might do that for one or 2 runs and when I have the section worked out, then go back to the lower gear for the next run - giving both the low gear power and the knowledge of the smoother high gear run.

The "no coasting in autox" saying must not be misunderstood. To some people, no coasting is interpreted as either "floor it" or "brake hard" and that is not always appropriate.

There are situations where a fairly steady throttle is required- such as an evenly spaced slalom or certain large radius sweepers. Sometimes even a series of offsets or a lane change can best be driven as a "momentum maintenance" section that requires a steady throttle through a large portion of it. In a momentum maintenance section, the car is given sufficient throttle to simply maintain its speed.

At THSCC events, many of our airport courses have large "momentum maintenance" sections. Of course, where your foot is on the throttle depends largely on how much horsepower and torque you have at your disposal. If you have a sewing machine engine or two mice running flat out on a spinning wheel, you might be flat footed most of the course.

I used to hear a really good driver talk about how he was "flat from that gate all the way through to the turnaround." He was in a Miata at the time. I was amazed at his skill because I knew that there was no way I could keep my car on the course if I was flat footed for the same distance. For the longest time, I just figured I was totally incompetent (which might still be true). It eventually dawned on me that my Trans Am or Corvette might accelerate more quickly than his Miata and that even Mike Whitney might not be able to keep my car flat footed for the same distance.

At some point, I realized that high horsepower cars demanded a skill that some other drivers may not have to acquire- throttle modulation. I'm still learning how to do that well in a car that is rated at 350 ft-lbs of torque.

As a side note, throttle modulation on a high horsepower car is every bit as important, subtle and tricky to master as any other challenging skill in autocrossing. I'm only beginning to understand the subtleties required to do it well on different courses, surfaces and types of elements. Kent Young is one of the most amazing people I've seen recently that has mastered the art of the right foot (with how much power? about 500 rwhp??) That Z28 of his makes my throttle modulation challenges seem trivial.


Miles

Come on Miles, you REALLY think theres a difference between the Miata and a Corvette?

Actually Miles brings up a very good point. In my opinion its MUCH easier to drive a low horse power car for both autox and track. Gives you one less thing (and its a MAJOR thing) to manage. With both my Miata and the Civic its rare that I really have to worry about managing power....there just isn't any to manage!! I have to however manage momentum because once its lost the right foot will not be able to make up for it!

This has beeen a quite good topic. Interesting that regardless of what folks drive seems all the "top" drivers are saying the exact same thing! If nothing else THAT should be the lesson for everyone wanting to go faster. To mimic Eric's saying: read, digest, repeat.

Good luck to all!

The Captain

I was reading a post on the scca forums that talked about for every foot away from a cone you loose .145 seconds. And that ultimately the shortest, tightest line is always the best time.

Yet in the book on secrets of solo racing. He mentions that taking the late apex from a turn or out of a slalom when setting up for a fast section allows you to carry more speed for a longer distance. This is in refernce to Solo II even though this follows the traditional racing line concepts. This was described when linking sections together to maintain the most speed through the entire block. Not just 1 part.

These ideas seem contradictory to each other. Taking the late apex seems to push you further away from the last cone and to the outside line. Which is not the shortest distance.

Signed, Confused.

What do you consider the last cone? By "definition" the apex is the inside cone that the car gets closest to in a corner. The distance to the apex cone should be as little as possible without knocking it over or out of its box.

In autocrossing the size of the corners and the width of the course generally preclude taking "too" wide a line. There are, of course, exceptions where the shortest line is best but they are relatively rare and even then the following quote attributed to John Ames tends to apply: "Late apex as early as possible".

The goal is to spend as little time as possible "in" the corner while getting back on the power at full throttle as soon as possible which means having the car pointed down the next "straight" and the steering "unwound".

Another reality of autocrossing is the tightness of all but the most open course designs (including even many Nationals corners) requires a late apex in most corners to allow a decent line and speed for the next corner. On many tight courses (the last night event is an excellent example) a late apex is needed to even clear the cones on the outside of the corner exit area, let alone be able to get going toward the next corner.

One good way of determining whether you are "late" exiting a corner ("late" meaning that you did NOT drive a late apex line) is if the front of your car is still pointing to the outside of the corner as you pass your chosen apex.

If your car can do a late apex corner exit with a tight (early apex) entry at a decent speed, go for it. If you are pushing on corner exit or pointing "perpendicular" to the next straight so you have to do a lot of turning before getting on the power, try a "wider" entry.

Very few autocross corners are "constant speed" and constant radius . . . at least not for a rear wheel drive car which is all I've driven in almost 30 years of autocrossing (talk about being in a rut). My "default" line has a fairly short portion at the maximum steering angle appropriate for the turn and then I open the steering angle as I get on the gas and drive towards the late apex cone. Depending on the car and corner I may trail brake. Properly done, trail braking can help the rear end to gently "rotate" which, of course, helps turn the car.

One thing to keep in mind at our relatively dirty sites: You may have to drive the "popular line" because the "right line" has lots of sand pushed onto it by the other cars!

By the way, I as I recall I agree with everything that Henry Watts says about line in Secrets of Solo Racing. I read it after I developed my driving style and didn't see any conflicts between my "line" and his. In fact, since I'm so rusty I better reread it as a refresher on what I used to know.

_________________
Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT