Classing question

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Yeah, I sort of figured Tarheel would allow it. I was mostly pointing out why it isn't allowed at bigger events. For example, you *could* just prep two NC Miatas identically but with one being a five speed and the other a six. In some cases one will be significantly faster than the other depending on the course. So if you and a buddy did that and you were allowed to jump willy nilly into any legal car, people *would* do it at big events (or even Nationals). You could have the cars so equal otherwise that the "jumping into a new car" thing wouldn't really apply.

I think if people started doing something like that at Tarheel events then the powers that be would put a stop to it. But since people aren't really doing it for *that* reason and likely wouldn't, I don't think it' s a big deal. I more wanted people to know that it isn't allowed at National stuff. Or Divisionals, for that matter.

So what I *meant* in my first post was that the SCCA rule *should* be there. I have no problem with Tarheel not following that rule, though.

--Donnie

Didn't some ESP hotshoes bring both rally cars and pony cars to Nats a couple of years ago when it rained on one day and was dry the next?

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:14 pm

National rules say you can switch cars in the class during an event (supposedly for mechanical reasons, but you don't have to prove the mechanical difficulties) but you cannot return to the first car at that event.
It's been done many times, even at the Championships.
I offered our car to Johnathan at the PS Finale after Donnie's broke, but he decided to sit on his Sat times.

Rick Butters · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:53 pm

Keith said (back in October 2005)

Quote:

I tried jumping in my friend Scott's Hoosier-clad S2000 for our Danville event in July felt like I was driving on another planet. I was lucky to get out with 44th place in PAX, but it didn't help my 'consistency'.

I guess it's time to try it again?

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:34 pm

Chuck Frank wrote:

National rules say you can switch cars in the class during an event (supposedly for mechanical reasons, but you don't have to prove the mechanical difficulties) but you cannot return to the first car at that event.

I'm not sure why you would throw in the "you don't have to prove mechanical difficulties" part. If you tried to fake it and got protested, you sure as heck would have to prove mechanical difficulties. Note that the rule also says you need permission to do the switch by the Operating Steward. This is for National Tours and anything else using the SCCA Solo Rules.

For ProSolo you can switch for any reason but you cannot switch back to the original car. The funny thing is the way *that* rule reads you could switch pretty willy nilly *after* the original car. Ie. start in car A, switch to B, switch to C, then switch back to B. You just can't go back to A. That would be hard to pull off given the run format, though.

--Donnie

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:06 am

Donnie Barnes wrote:

The funny thing is the way *that* rule reads you could switch pretty willy nilly *after* the original car. Ie. start in car A, switch to B, switch to C, then switch back to B.

Sweet. Next year I'm bringing out a 4-speed, 5-speed and a 6-speed Miata to run the Finale. They'll never know what hit them!

Jim

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:54 am

JamesFeinberg wrote:

Sweet. Next year I'm bringing out a 4-speed, 5-speed and a 6-speed Miata to run the Finale. They'll never know what hit them!

I'm too lazy to go look up the impound rules, but my guess is you'd get hosed if the faster car was *not* the one you finished with since the one you finish with is the one they'd impound for the challenge. Since you can't switch back to the *first* car that's not an issue, but if your fastest times were in the second car you couldn't switch back to it. That's assuming you made the challenge and all that.

It's also been pointed out to me that in the single car format you could theoretically run NINE different cars since there is time to switch between runs. I do think technically all cars would have to be entered already, though, for all of these scenarios. So you'd need to have someone else already running said car. But an AS chinese fire drill would be pretty fun. :shock:

--Donnie

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:25 am

Rick Butters wrote:

Keith said (back in October 2005)

Quote:

I tried jumping in my friend Scott's Hoosier-clad S2000 for our Danville event in July felt like I was driving on another planet. I was lucky to get out with 44th place in PAX, but it didn't help my 'consistency'.

I guess it's time to try it again?

Yep, it may be time to give it another try. Hopefully, the difference between the V710's (on my STi) and Scott's A3SO4's isn't nearly as huge as what I experienced back in '05 - back then, I had been running on street tires (STX and STU classes) for a couple seasons in cars with slow-ish steering ratios. I'm sure the S2000's steering will still feel quicker than my brain can calibrate to, but maybe not as extreme as before - I'm just hoping to avoid center-punching every turn-in cone again.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:47 am

Keith Quistorff wrote:

Yep, it may be time to give it another try. Hopefully, the difference between the V710's (on my STi) and Scott's A3SO4's isn't nearly as huge as what I experienced back in '05 - back then, I had been running on street tires (STX and STU classes) for a couple seasons in cars with slow-ish steering ratios. I'm sure the S2000's steering will still feel quicker than my brain can calibrate to, but maybe not as extreme as before - I'm just hoping to avoid center-punching every turn-in cone again.

I ran into that a bit with Karl's S2000. There is no steering rack on the Crossfire, it's good 'ole fashion recirculating ball. In other words, it's slow, vague and overboosted. I was amazed I didn't hit 15 cones on my first run in Karl's car

- AB

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:57 am

Keith Quistorff wrote:

I had been running on street tires (STX and STU classes) for a couple seasons in cars with slow-ish steering ratios. I'm sure the S2000's steering will still feel quicker than my brain can calibrate to, but maybe not as extreme as before - I'm just hoping to avoid center-punching every turn-in cone again.

I can relate to that. I drove Rick Butter's S2000 at an Atlanta Tour a couple of years ago and it was quite an eye-opener. I hadn't even sat in one of those things until I took it up the street and back (all of ~3 miles) as a quick "calibration" run and then proceeded to pull up to the starting line. I managed to center punch the first three cones on course on turn-in and barely made it through the rest of the run without knocking down the rest of the course.

When I came back in, Rick was standing with a big grin on his face and I couldn't stop laughing. I told him I thought the idea was to use the "H" symbol on the front of the hood as a way to line up the cones but I don't think he bought it. I adjusted fairly well after that but it still surprised the heck out of me at the time. Oops.

Jim

MartynWheeler · **Joined:** Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:30 pm **Posts:** 303

Donnie Barnes wrote:

If you tried to fake it and got protested, you sure as heck would have to prove mechanical difficulties.

So overtorque the lugnuts and rip out the studs. Bingo, mechanical difficulties and a definite safety issue.

Anyone who is willing to play that game is surely more than willing to soak a few dollars in an easily breakable part or two.

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