Running the taxiway in Sanford

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2007 8:45 am

This is a brainstorming thread just for the future. Cite specific events if you please, but let's keep this open to ideas and not a focus on critiquing any one course.

As we all know, the taxiway is narrow. While we can do high speed stuff the likelihood of a bent car goes up in proportion to the speed. It's happened before, and we don't want it to happen again.

In order to keep start and finish somewhat close together, we have to cover a long portion of the taxiway. Unfortunately, long distances and low-ish speeds make for challenging setup.

Approaches used in the past:

1) Moderate to tight transition intensive.
2) Straight line with no turns (drag strip).
3) Both 1 and 2.

We spent a lot of time on Saturday trying to *guess* where a car would go off and at what speed. We did put some thought into the spin zones to keep them clear of obstacles (on either side of the course).

The big issue (as seen this weekend) is the cone count that you can achieve when you have tight transitions. I actually like adding in a long straight because it keeps cone counts down and is pretty safe when the braking zone is well defined and straight. The problem is the disparity it creates between the haves (hp) and the have-nots. A 1/8 mile drag strip is just stupid in an HS Mini or 1.6L Miata. The fun stopped the second the turning stopped.

For me, acceptable risk evolves putting a car in the grass, not hitting a tree. How do we balance the fun and the safety.

Scott

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2007 9:08 am

scottjohnson wrote:

A 1/8 mile drag strip is just stupid in an HS Mini or 1.6L Miata. The fun stopped the second the turning stopped.

As a owner of a 1.6L Miata, Id rather had seen an 1/8 mile drag strip instead of 3, 5 cone slaloms yesterday. But that's just me and I may have sand somewhere I shouldn't, but I'm ok with that.

There is a 3rd option, don't use as much of the taxiway. If you would have moved the start to roughly where the 1st 5 coner was T&S would have still been able to see the cars no problem. I actually thought the start was kinda cool, so I would have hated to see that go, but we are brainstorming here.

The 4th option is to use virtually none of the taxiway and have a "T" course. We do that often and I understand that variety is the spice of life.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2007 9:33 am

From a T&S point of view, I liked most of yesterday's course.

-I wasn't too excited about having the finish behind the bus but we were able to work around that. Normally I like to be able to look up and see the car crossing the finish line, this helps me make sure that I'm writing the time down by the proper car, but it isn't a necessity. The only way to fix that yesterday would have been to put the bus on the other side of the connector, but then you have problems with cables.

-The start was great. No real problems there.

-The course length was the only issue I had. I REALLY like long courses, but with one that long, we actually had 4 cars on course during half of the first heat. That was about a 25 second overlap. Things got REAL busy in the bus real quick. Rodney got his T&S baptism during that heat. Once we slowed the lauch interval to about 30 seconds, things got better. Still busy, but better.

From a driver's stand point, I LOVED that course!!!! Being able to go flat through the first Chicago Box after the slalom and the sweeper at the far end were fun!!! I won my class!!!! I know that PAX SUX, but I had my best PAX result ever yesterday!!!! And Emmie even highlighted it on the results posting!! Thanks Emmie!!!!!!!! :lol:

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2007 10:05 am

The drag strip ending (think it was non-points event late 2005) was fun with some challenging slow gates prior to it -- I have no problem with those. However, the non-points end of the year event last year had a really nice course that did not have a high cone count and was a blast to drive. I can't find a course map link for it however...anyone have one?

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Quote:

However, the non-points end of the year event last year had a really nice course that did not have a high cone count and was a blast to drive. I can't find a course map link for it however...anyone have one?

Thanks, Chuck. I have a map of the non-points course at home; I'll post it later. I think it involved about 50 or 60 cones TOTAL to mark the course. I don't know why people have to use every cone on the trailer. It definitely doesn't add any fun for anyone, and it just makes the course workers and the timing workers work a lot harder. We've seen this problem a lot - maybe we need a new rule on how many cones you can use. :lol:

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

- We need a measuring wheel. All of the cones on the taxiway were paced off rather than measured, and there was some "variances" on spacing that could have been prevented.
- If we don't have a controlled taxiway course or a 99+% working wireless system, we have to have a T course with two pivot cones (or other ways to get drivers to do 180s).

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2007 10:41 am

I have a copy (of course I do) of that course. I'll post it if you'll tell me how to do that. The problem with that course for a large event is that the launch interval would be almost 60 seconds, assuming that your turn around is all the way @ the end of the runway. Great for the bus, but a pretty long day. It was a fun day though, we took the vette.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2007 10:45 am

Wes Eargle wrote:

- We need a measuring wheel. All of the cones on the taxiway were paced off rather than measured, and there was some "variances" on spacing that could have been prevented.

A measuring wheel and some string cut at 15' lengths would rawk.

I'll work on that, they will be in the bus at the next event.

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2007 11:04 am

I do hope you don't plan to use 15' slallom spacing!?!? A 50 or 60' string with 10' markings could be useful (or better yet a lightweight chain with shower curtain or keychain hooks hung every 10').
Since I was one of the people that did an "off" on the taxiway that could have been very serious had it not been for the mud trap before the trees, I have no love for slalloms on the taxiway, but I also hate to give up the sweepers in between, we don't have many sites that can include sweepers. I'm not sure what the compromise might be.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2007 11:06 am

I think he was talking about gate width for the 15' rope.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2007 11:08 am

Chuck Frank wrote:

I do hope you don't plan to use 15' slallom spacing!?!?

Gate width spacing... You needed to be at the event to understand. - AB

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2007 11:08 am

Chuck Frank wrote:

I do hope you don't plan to use 15' slallom spacing!?!?

Only when you and Donna show up.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Quote:

The problem with that course for a large event is that the launch interval would be almost 60 seconds

Yeah, I would not run that course for a normal event - the entry limit would have to be 80 or less, like at the event in question.

On the subject of this thread though, I don't think the way it was done yesterday was horrible, but it could've flowed better. Evenly spaced slaloms and no "wide open into really tight stuff" would help. You just have to keep the speed pretty steady, with a little increase and decrease here & there, letting people get into a rhythm while not allowing them to feel enough speed to make them want to push it that little bit harder that gets them into trouble. If you get them into a steady rhythm early, and don't let them feel the acceleration like you did halfway down the taxiway, maybe even no full throttle (except for the really slow cars) until the sweeper at the end, I think it will help with cone count and safety. I don't think you'd even have to use that many cones to accomplish this. And I think it would be a good start to a course that got a little (or a lot) faster once you hit the runway, with a good flying finish. Now that would make some people happy. The momentum guys would get to kick ass on the first half, and be pretty even with the hp guys on the second half.

Just an idea - if I'm wrong, feel free to let me know.

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2007 11:25 am

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Chuck Frank wrote:

I do hope you don't plan to use 15' slallom spacing!?!?

Gate width spacing... You needed to be at the event to understand. - AB

Not the dreaded "mall parking space gate width" syndrome again!?!
The chain I proposed could also have a 15' marker, A chain is easier to deal with than a string, easier to untangle and doesn't stretch. That's why they use em in football. Would make setting up a course easy and precise.
Put a shower curtain ring on each end to use as handles and one every 10' and one at 15', for storage put up a hook in the trailer 5+' off the floor and hook the curtain hooks over it. It's also inexpensive and durable.
I vote for a chain.

Ash Nelson · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2007 11:41 am

I liked the course, especially the taxiway. I won't say I excelled at it, but I liked it! The only spot I did not care for was where the pavement changed from old to new while I was trying to turn under power. That made me edgy, but it's not like you could have designed the course to go around it.

If I had a trailer I would bring a bunch of bicycles to the next Sanford event and rent them to people working stations at the far end. :lol:

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